The sad fact is that we still have a division of breeders in our club as far as German bred vs American bred. We have to realize that if you have a German bred dog or an American bred dog the same problems can crop up: bad hips, ligaments or spinal problems. etc. etc. As a breeder of Am-bred lines, I will concede and state that I don't see that the German lines have as many problems with loose ligaments....what their problems are- or at least what it looks like to me, in my humble opinion, is the painfully "in my observance" of overly strong backs that they are called and well-known as "roached backs" or at times called "banana backs" and that the roach back "appears" to restrict movement...I can't see for the life of me where dogs that are so roached in the back and so restricted in reach and drive can possibly herd sheep all day without tiring. And also, that there seems to be no suspension in their movement and no relief in their movements to make them go all day long. Therein lies the problem: If a dog has the mental capacity to make itself do its job...say herding, for instance, it will do it -beyond the fact it is so tired out -bodily. If the dog's mind is driven to work, it will do it beyond its own capabilities-as far as correct or in-correct structure is concerned... it is the will do to its job despite the so-called standards of any country in regard to our beloved breed. And yes, I do realize that sheep are not trotting around willy-nilly, non-stop, all day long. So there a many times our beloved breed can lay down and take a break. I guess in the end is what I am trying to say is pit your best American Bred GSD against your best German Bred GSD and make sure they have the EXACT same mind and mental drive and let us see what happens! Cc: gsheps@xxxxxxx<about:blank> ; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<about:blank> ----- Original Message ----- From: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: showgsd-l digest users<mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 2:20 PM Subject: showgsd-l Digest V3 #2860 showgsd-l Digest Sun, 06 Dec 2009 Volume: 03 Issue: 2860 In This Issue: #1: From: Robert Neiman <bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: DR. Michael Fox #2: From: Gail BAUMAN <gailbauman1@xxxxxxx<mailto:gailbauman1@xxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: DR. Michael Fox #3: From: "Doc Zoe" <wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx>> Subject: DR FOX #4: From: "Susan Gionfriddo" <gsheps@xxxxxxx<mailto:gsheps@xxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: Disturbing New Article ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Msg: #1 in digest Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:10:28 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Neiman <bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: DR. Michael Fox The following was all I needed to read to determine his whacko status. Fox joined HSUS in 1976, and is a director of an HSUS affiliate called the Center for Respect of Life and Environment. Bob Neiman / Walled Lake, Mich. Breeder/owner of UKC GR Ch.B'N'B-Barkalot's Cherish RN Co-owner of UKC ChSandyCreek-B'N'B-WC's Christmas Star AKA Echo Co-owner of Ketlyn's Black Widow ------------------------------ Msg: #2 in digest From: Gail BAUMAN <gailbauman1@xxxxxxx<mailto:gailbauman1@xxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: DR. Michael Fox Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 13:15:29 -0600 Oh why stop there? Let's go to Dog World and any of the other 'main stream' publications and put something in them?? I agree - we've taken so much 'bashing' in our breed and I have seen very few 'collective' rebuttals - mostly what I have seen is done by an individual here or there - 'course, might be because I live out in the middle of nowhere (LOL!) but why are we, as the GSDCA, NOT doing more 'public' educating of the public? Gail Bauman Liebchen German Shepherds Home of 2008 SEL EX CH Liebchen's Boogie Wonderland, OFA EX www.liebchenkennels.com<http://www.liebchenkennels.com/> WE HAVE HAYLEE PUPPIES!! > From: webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:07:45 -0500 > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: DR. Michael Fox > > Perhaps we need an article written on him to educate the masses > > One for the GSDCA review and one for the Cardi Publication > <VBG> > > On 6 Dec 2009, at 10:59, Stormy Hope wrote: > > http://www.activistcash.com/biography.cfm/bid/3365<http://www.activistcash.com/biography.cfm/bid/3365> > > Michael W. Fox > Biography Michael W. Fox is senior scholar at the Humane Society of > the United States, the world's richest animal-rights organization, > which poses as an animal-welfare organization. Fox is widely known as > the syndicated columnist of "Ask Your Animal Doctor," which appears > weekly is over 120 newspapers nationwide. But he holds extreme views > on the relationship between humans and animals. > Fox is a veterinarian who was born and educated in England. He is the > author of more than 40 books, including Eating with Conscience: The > Bioethics of Food. He and his wife founded the India Project for > Animals and Nature (IPAN) and its sanctuary, Hill View Farm Animal > Refuge. Using the picture of one of the refuge's animals, IPAN > proclaims, "This sanctuary donkey will never experience the cruel fate > of being sold into hard labor like other sanctuary donkeys before our > arrival." > > Fox joined HSUS in 1976, and is a director of an HSUS affiliate called > the Center for Respect of Life and Environment. Former HSUS CEO John > Hoyt said the Center was created "to let Dr. Fox direct some of his > views in a channel that was an arm's length removed from the HSUS." > > What are those controversial views about which Hoyt was so concerned? > Fox holds the radical view that humans and animals have the same moral > standing. "We are not superior. There are no clear distinctions > between us and animals," Fox once told Washingtonian magazine. In his > book The Inhumane Society, Fox's opines: "The life of an ant and that > of my child should be granted equal consideration." > > > Background Senior Scholar, Humane Society of the United States; > syndicated columnist of "Ask Your Animal Doctor" > On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Lindenhill German Shepherds wrote: > > > Well folks, I am livid. If you have an opportunity to look at Dr. > > Fox's recent column he discusses GSD'S and essentially blames the > > condition being asked about on American Breds. Gotta tell ya, time > > for a letter writting campaign to those that have picked up his > > column. He is nationally syndiicated, ex VP national HS > > Here it is: > > > > Dear Dr. Fox: > ===========================================================================> POST is Copyrighted 2009. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Comm > unication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of > the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WH > ICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MAN > AGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PR > OSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx>. > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org<http://showgsd.org/> > NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/> > ===========================================================================> > Dr Zoë M Backman > Web Master, web applications developer,web admin > Mosher's Law of Software Engineering: > Don't worry if it doesn't work right. If everything did, > you'd be out of a job. > ===========================================================================> POST is Copyrighted 2009. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx>. > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org<http://showgsd.org/> > NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/> > =========================================================================== ------------------------------ Msg: #3 in digest From: "Doc Zoe" <wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx>> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:17:32 -0500 Subject: DR FOX We need articles written on Dr Fox and sent to the GSD REVIEW and any other magazines/newsletter that people have access to I know the Cardi Publication editor is on the list We need to educate the public that this man's vet advice is slanted towards his PETAPHILE affiliations and might just be detrimental to the animals well-being These articles can be posted on Kennel websites as well Writing to him will fall on deaf ears Doc Zoe Wynsum http://wynsumgsd.com<http://wynsumgsd.com/> ------------------------------ Msg: #4 in digest From: "Susan Gionfriddo" <gsheps@xxxxxxx<mailto:gsheps@xxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: Disturbing New Article Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 14:20:04 -0500 I would like to share a disturbing news article that has the bold heading: Breeding cripples German shepherds I can't believe it, I just saw on The List that this article was out! But I will still send what I was just starting to write for The List and my own two cents... The article, which I will write here word for word, appeared in the Sunday Republican, a Western Massachusetts newspaper, on Nov. 29. 2009. A friend of mine who owns Cairns saved it for me to read. It is a Sunday Q and A column called Animal Doctor and is written by a Dr. Michael Fox. Here is the article with German Shepherd Dog (typically misspelled) and I am only writing that so you all know that I know our breed is the German Shepherd Dog, not the German shepherd, German Shepard, or German shepard and that I am just writing verbatim what was in the article. Here we go! - Q. We have lost two precious, wonderful, beautiful German shepherds, apparently due to health problems. Both dogs suffered crippling hind-leg deterioration. In both cases, the overall strength in their hind legs and lower back appeared to simply give out. One of them had gotten to the point where he couldn't walk at all. Is there any way we can prevent this from happening to future German shepherds? Or is the species simply doomed?-G.W.B., Clinton, Md. A. If you go to Germany, you will see what the standards are before anyone with a registered German shepherd is permitted to breed the dog and sell any of the puppies as certified offspring. What American breeders have done to this superb breed is one of the greatest tragedies of the past century (I bolded this for impact to you readers)- selectively breeding dogs with sharply sloping hindquarters as a desirable breed standard. In actuality, they created weak-legged dogs prone to hip and spinal problems. In Germany, the breed club is not permitted to breed a dog like that and sell the pups. I will never forget seeing a pathetic- but otherwise healthy and spirited- American-bred German-shepherd pup of 16 weeks dragging and flapping his deformed hindquarters as he tried to play with my dogs in the local park. At least he had been neutered. Dr. Fox concluded his answer with several remedies to the situation of the questioner, such as herbal remedies, acupuncture, etc. This is me now writing: I would like to write a article in rebuttal to what Dr. Fox has written, or better yet or even both, invite Dr. Fox to my small kennel and enlighten him into reality. If anyone is interested inalso writing Dr. Fox I will find out and relay to you how to write to him. I am assuming that the question was edited because there was nothing mentioned that the dogs spoken about in the question were in fact, American-bred, but Dr. Fox goes on to answer the question by stating only what American breeders have done to our breed. I won't go into the big forever going on debate here, as we all know that there will always be the American vs German controversy, i.e. ski-slopes vs. banana backs. I have been breeding German Shepherd Dogs since 1986, all with American lines, with the exception of one breeding to a German sire. I have, for the most part, been overall very pleased with having had very few health problems with the American lines I have chosen to use. We will all get problems, the longer we breed. It is what we choose to do with the problems, as in, if they are too intense to deal with- we will kick out that line from our breeding program. Or, if it is only one or two puppies afflicted and the overall quality of the breeding/sire/ dam/ might make me decide to keep the line and try to breed out the undesirable characteristics. I think for the most part, over the years, I have seen a definite decrease in over-angulated, "egg-beater" type of rears which are the result of ligament problems, not hips. A novice or uninformed person will usually assume that loose ligaments indicates that a dog or puppy must have bad hips. Perhaps the improvements in our breed made in the way of loose ligaments are mostly due to judges demanding clean coming and going in the German Shepherd Dogs-and rightly so, and also credit is due to the breeders themselves, of course, making improvements to their programs. We all know that puppies can have a lo t of angles and look a little strange to those not familiar to our breed and that those puppies tighten up their ligaments and lose the excess angles with age- the ones that keep too extreme angles and never tighten up in ligaments and are in fact, looking "weird" are what we want to stay clear of. But again, many of these dogs prove out to have good hips and no spine problems- but we do not want to see this "problem" overly done in our pups and certainly not in our adults. Those are separate issues- meaning again, loose ligaments do not automatically mean bad hips or spine problems. I may be going a little off topic, but I have seen and groomed a number of Standard Bred Poodles and often have wondered why, with their extreme angle of lower thigh, that there is no controversy there-or maybe there is? I don't know because I don't breed Standard Poodles and I have never spoken to a breeder of Standard Poodles to ask if they have the same problems or comments about extreme angl es... e.g. Are novices that might like Standard Poodles or the uninformed that like Standard Poodles asking why these poodles "look weird" because of their extreme angulation that they also must all have bad hips? The one thing I have seen, is that despite the extreme rear angle in the Standard Poodle, I have never seen one to date that was not clean going away or had loose ligaments, resulting in the wobbling, egg-beater look of some German Shepherd Dog puppies, and unfortunately some adult GSD's. The Standard Poodle does not move with a top line angle, like we li ke to see in our German As I have previously stated, I think we GSD breeders have made great strides (no pun intended) to clean up our rears, I could throw in another pun here, but I won't. What I am saying is that I think the breeder today is aware that there is no need to compromise movement coming and going for extreme movement from the side. In the end, we all need to keep reading our standard and keep breed ing with it in mind. And also educating our judges as to what our standard is. To: showgsd-l digest users<mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:12 PM Subject: showgsd-l Digest V3 #2855 showgsd-l Digest Sat, 05 Dec 2009 Volume: 03 Issue: 2855 In This Issue: #1: From: "pmick12" <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Integrity.........this is good! #2: From: "Doc Zoe" <wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx>>> Subject: Mo update. 8:30 AM #3: From: Sandy Staack <s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: coat factor #4: From: Robert Neiman <bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Re: coat factor #5: From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Fw: LONG COAT factor #6: From: Windwalkergsds@xxxxxx<mailto:Windwalkergsds@xxxxxx<mailto:Windwalkergsds@xxxxxx%3Cmailto:Windwalkergsds@xxxxxx>> Subject: Mo is Out of Surgery #7: From: "WEBMASTER" <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Mo update. 11:30 #8: From: "Doc Zoe" <wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx>>> Subject: Re: Mo update. 10:23 #9: From: pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx<mailto:pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx<mailto:pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: coat factor #10: From: Mary Ward <mlward@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mlward@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mlward@xxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:mlward@xxxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Mo Murkland #11: From: Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx>> Subject: any just get the latest bulletin from GSDCA? #12: From: TISHW@xxxxxxx<mailto:TISHW@xxxxxxx<mailto:TISHW@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:TISHW@xxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: any just get the latest bulletin from GSDCA? #13: From: Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx>> Subject: Re: any just get the latest bulletin from GSDCA? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Msg: #1 in digest From: "pmick12" <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Integrity.........this is good! Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:34:11 -0500 We all need to read this...every one on the list who breeds or is involved with breeders or with purebred dogs........ http://disparateinterests.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/integrity-how-i-can-be-a-purebred-dog-fancier-a-humane-activist/<http://disparateinterests.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/integrity-how-i-can-be-a-purebred-dog-fancier-a-humane-activist/<http://disparateinterests.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/integrity-how-i-can-be-a-purebred-dog-fancier-a-humane-activist/%3Chttp://disparateinterests.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/integrity-how-i-can-be-a-purebred-dog-fancier-a-humane-activist/>> ------------------------------ Msg: #2 in digest From: "Doc Zoe" <wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx>>> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 11:43:06 -0500 Subject: Mo update. 8:30 AM FROM Pat Evans Amy just texted me, they are getting ready to take Mo into surgery. She has not talked to the surgeon yet. One thing they will do, is relieve the pressure in her intestines. Will update as I get more info. Thanks everyone for the prayers! Hopefully Bullwinkle will take his first points today at the Houston show-that will make Mo real happy! Doc Zoe Wynsum http://wynsumgsd.com<http://wynsumgsd.com/<http://wynsumgsd.com%3chttp//wynsumgsd.com/>> ------------------------------ Msg: #3 in digest Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 08:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: Sandy Staack <s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx><mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3E>> Subject: coat factor I have a question I need an answer to. Can anyone tell me how to go about getting a dog tested for the coat factor. And what is the approximate charge. Never done this before. Thanks in advance Sandy Staack Donsta Shepherds ***We have puppies*** ------------------------------ Msg: #4 in digest Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:07:38 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Neiman <bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Re: coat factor Three ways #1 Breed him to a normal coat who does(by virtue of producing coats in the past)carry coat gene. #2 Breed him to a long coat #3 Order the kit and pay OFA to do it not sure on the cost. Personally I'd breed him and take my chances on getting coats. Bob Neiman / Walled Lake, Mich. Breeder/owner of UKC GR Ch.B'N'B-Barkalot's Cherish RN Co-owner of UKC ChSandyCreek-B'N'B-WC's Christmas Star AKA Echo Co-owner of Ketlyn's Black Widow --- On Sat, 12/5/09, Sandy Staack <s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote: From: Sandy Staack <s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] coat factor To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Date: Saturday, December 5, 2009, 11:47 AM I have a question I need an answer to. Can anyone tell me how to go about getting a dog tested for the coat factor. And what is the approximate charge. Never done this before. Thanks in advance Sandy Staack Donsta Shepherds ***We have puppies*** ===========================================================================POST is Copyrighted 2009. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx>>. VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org<http://showgsd.org/<http://showgsd.org%3chttp//showgsd.org/>> NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/%3Chttp://gsdnational.blogspot.com/>> =========================================================================== ------------------------------ Msg: #5 in digest From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Fw: LONG COAT factor Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:45:20 -0800 Hi Sandy; Try this web site below that Melissa gave me. It is just SO MUCH EASIER. Even if you breed your dog to a bitch that has produced coats.....you still won't really KNOW for sure and in my opinion....looking around for a coated bitch that is "right" for him is not always simple. This is simple and you KNOW the answer if someone inquires. We did this with our Cowboy and knew shortly that he did not carry the coat factor. Just TOO EASY not to........<G> http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-long-hair-test.html<http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-long-hair-test.html<http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-long-hair-test.html%3Chttp://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-long-hair-test.html>> Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> www.Marhaven.com<http://www.marhaven.com/<http://www.marhaven.com%3chttp//www.marhaven.com/>> Three ways #1 Breed him to a normal coat who does(by virtue of producing coats in the past)carry coat gene. #2 Breed him to a long coat #3 Order the kit and pay OFA to do it not sure on the cost. Personally I'd breed him and take my chances on getting coats. Bob Neiman / Walled Lake, Mich. --- On Sat, 12/5/09, Sandy Staack <s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote: From: Sandy Staack <s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx>Subject<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3ESubject<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3ESubject%3Cmailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3ESubject>>: [ SHOWGSD-L ] coat factor To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Date: Saturday, December 5, 2009, 11:47 AM I have a question I need an answer to. Can anyone tell me how to go about getting a dog tested for the coat factor. And what is the approximate charge. Never done this before. Thanks in advance Sandy Staack Donsta Shepherds ------------------------------ Msg: #6 in digest From: Windwalkergsds@xxxxxx<mailto:Windwalkergsds@xxxxxx<mailto:Windwalkergsds@xxxxxx%3Cmailto:Windwalkergsds@xxxxxx>> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 12:49:50 EST Subject: Mo is Out of Surgery and doing OK, according to Pete. They found a 3mm hole in her intestine and have resected. She will be heavily sedated today and they expect she will have to stay one entire month in the hospital to clean everything up, and then approx. 6 months with home health care and mending time. We almost lost her, but it looks like all of your prayers have been heard. If any of you want to send cards, etc., she is in Scott & White Memorial Hospital So. 31st Street, Temple, Texas 76501. I don't have a room number as she is still in ICU. Jamie ------------------------------ Msg: #7 in digest From: "WEBMASTER" <webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:webmaster@xxxxxxxxxxx>>> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:03:06 -0500 Subject: Mo update. 11:30 From Pat Evans: Out of surgery. She had a 2" hole in her collan, which has been repaired. (That was the reason she was septic-fluid was leaking out). Per Amy, at this point they think she will be in the hospital for a month, then rehab. The Showgsd-l Administration http://showgsd.org<http://showgsd.org/<http://showgsd.org%3chttp//showgsd.org/>> Email Changes: http://showgsd.org/mail.html<http://showgsd.org/mail.html<http://showgsd.org/mail.html%3Chttp://showgsd.org/mail.html>> Admin: admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx>> ANNOUNCE NEW LITTERS: http://showgsd.org/goodlitterbox.html<http://showgsd.org/goodlitterbox.html<http://showgsd.org/goodlitterbox.html%3Chttp://showgsd.org/goodlitterbox.html>> THE NATIONAL BLOG http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/%3Chttp://gsdnational.blogspot.com/>> NOTO BENE: DOC ZOE is not a voting member of the Admin Panel ------------------------------ Msg: #8 in digest From: "Doc Zoe" <wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx<mailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:wynsum@xxxxxxx>>> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:03:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Mo update. 10:23 Pat Evans wrote: Mo is in surgery. Surgery going well, per that update. Bullwinkle ready to go in the ring, shortly. He reminds me so much of Spunky, just laying around, waiting for his turn! Doc Zoe Wynsum http://wynsumgsd.com<http://wynsumgsd.com/<http://wynsumgsd.com%3chttp//wynsumgsd.com/>> ------------------------------ Msg: #9 in digest From: pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx<mailto:pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx<mailto:pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx>> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 13:30:47 EST Subject: Re: coat factor Vet-gen sells the kit direct...about $50. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/<http://www.pinehillgsds.com/<http://www.pinehillgsds.com/%3Chttp://www.pinehillgsds.com/>>) In a message dated 12/5/2009 12:08:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:bnbgsds2000@xxxxxxxxx>> writes: Three ways #1 Breed him to a normal coat who does(by virtue of producing coats in the past)carry coat gene. #2 Breed him to a long coat #3 Order the kit and pay OFA to do it not sure on the cost. Personally I'd breed him and take my chances on getting coats. Bob Neiman / Walled Lake, Mich. Breeder/owner of UKC GR Ch.B'N'B-Barkalot's Cherish RN Co-owner of UKC ChSandyCreek-B'N'B-WC's Christmas Star AKA Echo Co-owner of Ketlyn's Black Widow --- On Sat, 12/5/09, Sandy Staack <s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote: From: Sandy Staack <s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:s_dstaack@xxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] coat factor To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Date: Saturday, December 5, 2009, 11:47 AM I have a question I need an answer to. Can anyone tell me how to go about getting a dog tested for the coat factor. And what is the approximate charge. Never done this before. Thanks in advance Sandy Staack Donsta Shepherds ***We have puppies*** ===========================================================================P OST is Copyrighted 2009. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx>>. VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org<http://showgsd.org/<http://showgsd.org%3chttp//showgsd.org/>> NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/%3Chttp://gsdnational.blogspot.com/>> =========================================================================== =========================================================================== POST is Copyrighted 2009. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx>>. VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org<http://showgsd.org/<http://showgsd.org%3chttp//showgsd.org/>> NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/<http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/%3Chttp://gsdnational.blogspot.com/>> =========================================================================== ------------------------------ Msg: #10 in digest Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 11:04:48 -0800 (PST) From: Mary Ward <mlward@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mlward@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mlward@xxxxxxxxxx%3Cmailto:mlward@xxxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Mo Murkland Amy and all the family and friends of Mo please tell her she is in my prayers. Mo you just have to know how much you mean to the members of the GSD community. Especially the ones on "Da List".. You are in our thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery. God Bless you Mo. Mary L Ward ------------------------------ Msg: #11 in digest From: Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx>> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 14:07:40 EST Subject: any just get the latest bulletin from GSDCA? Just wanted to thank Tish for doing such a good job of letting the membership know all the things we ask about. Information is the highway and I prefer paved roads! LOL Molly Trillia German Shepherds since 1972 ph 409-287-3940 Member GSDCA, GSDCC, GSDC of Beaumont (recording secretary), Life member CKC "We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't". ..Frank A Clark ------------------------------ Msg: #12 in digest From: TISHW@xxxxxxx<mailto:TISHW@xxxxxxx<mailto:TISHW@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:TISHW@xxxxxxx>> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 14:10:18 EST Subject: Re: any just get the latest bulletin from GSDCA? Unfortunately, the road may be slippery and have some snow on it!! At least up here it does. Tish In a message dated 12/5/2009 2:08:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx>> writes: Information is the highway and I prefer paved roads! LOL ------------------------------ Msg: #13 in digest From: Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx<mailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx%3Cmailto:Bokenkampgsd1@xxxxxxx>> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 14:11:41 EST Subject: Re: any just get the latest bulletin from GSDCA? In a message dated 12/5/2009 1:10:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, TISHW writes: Unfortunately, the road may be slippery and have some snow on it!! At least up here it does. But the good thing is...nothing lasts forever. Enjoy the white stuff....our is long gone! Molly Trillia German Shepherds since 1972 ph 409-287-3940 Member GSDCA, GSDCC, GSDC of Beaumont (recording secretary), Life member CKC "We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't". ..Frank A Clark ------------------------------ End of showgsd-l Digest V3 #2855 ******************************** ------------------------------ End of showgsd-l Digest V3 #2860 ******************************** ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2009. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================