You know Tom, what we describe as lifting is different in each persons eyes. It depends on upper arm length primarily and the amount of suspension the dogb has. The straight shoulder usually gives rise to the front action refrrred to as reaching from the elbow or a bent wristed, hacknew action...The lofting front usually does not have bending(of and degree) of the pastern joints. Watch most Irish Setters, they for the most part have this prancing, lift in front...due to shoulder blade placement. It is rather easy to construct an apparatus made if two sticks, to measure the blade angle...One verticle stick that rests on the ground by the side tof the dog..and another hinged arm that you line up along the scapular s[pine...The angle between these sticks will give you the shoulder lawback..not difficult to construct....In fact there are drafting compases that have movable arms that can also be used... If the shoulder blade is laid back 45 degrees, and then the scapula rotates another 15 degrees foreward, the foot at full extension would indeed be above the ground, so the front action would not be inbalance...... Chuck Kruger ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================