[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: sable Bi Color

  • From: <cnnpmm2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:51:11 -0400

Hey Carolyn, I have one of those "sable-bi's!"  She has "tar heels" and pencil 
marks.  And, she has a gray undercoat to boot!  (Plus, a lovely black stripe 
down the middle of her belly.)  However, she wasn't sired by a bi, but rather a 
reddish sable (Alvin) and a solid black mama.

BTW, I have to agree about Bono...  I had a bitch that was colored just like 
him and I've always thought of that as a very dark extended blanket.  Not a bi. 
 (I have owned a true bi.)


Paulette

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Edwin Hill" <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "freelist" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 8:40 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: sable Bi Color


I've seen some absolutely stunning black sables out of East German and Czeck 
lines that are more
beautifully intense in color than any of our sables.......and they have the 
pencil marks on the toes and
the black hocks.    Would that make them a sable bi-color?     <G>   Or a 
bi-color sable?

Carolyn    marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com



----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Edwin Hill To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist Sent: Friday, July 
10, 2009 4:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi Color


        to me...Bono's black hocks make him a Bi-color...another example is Ch. 
Joe Black...many do not believe he is a Bi-color including his owners...both 
are Bi's...Now Evan's Big Ben does not have black hocks,,,,so he's a dark 
blanket black and tan....just as there are faded pigments in black and tans, 
there are differences in color pigments in Bi-colors...but the pattern holds 
true.......FB

        In this instance I agree with Carolyn.  Bono didn't have stenciled  
toes 
        that I can see.  While he did have black hocks, the transition from  
tan to 
        black on his legs wasn't sharp.  It was gradual.  Of course the real 
proof would be if he was ever bred to
         a bi-color or  black and produced a (dark blanket) black & tan.   
Anyone?   Liz
        _www.lealynn.com_ (http://www.lealynn.com/) 



        --- From: Carolyn Martello marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

          NAW.........he wasn't a Bi - Color.   Go to my web site below.   He's 
on the first page....don't even have 
          to search.
          You can see the color and shadings up around his elbow and upper arm 
and where his hocks met
          his rear quarters.   Shadings of a different color.....even up above 
his hock starting on his stifles.
          Not a true Bi.   Look again........
          Bono had a small white patch on his chest......but that is not what 
I'm talking about.
          His sire was a dark blanket black and tan that carried the black 
factor.    BOSS just made BONO a darker
          blanket black and tan.   I know BeBe produced Bi Colors.....but BONO 
wasn't one....not with those shadings
          of color.

          Carolyn    marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
          www.Marhaven.com

            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Edwin Hill To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist Sent: 
Friday, July 10, 2009 3:23 PM
            Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi Color


            Bi-colors can be tricky, hence the discussion and the different 
opinions...Bono was bred by Carolyn, but the bitch was owned by me and leased 
to Carolyn...In my opinion Bono IS a bi-color.....his dam's genotype was 
BlkTan/Bi-color....Gv Bono's dam had several itters and several puppies were 
Bi-colors....one of these Bi-colors lives about two miles from me. All 
Bi-colors do not look alike just as all sables do not look alike.....because of 
the other gene for color "incomplete dominence" plays a part in many variations 
in color patterns...So while Boss did not look like his Grandson Bono/.....I 
believe they were both Bi-colors.....Bi-colors can have white on the 
chest...which would give them three colors....but the overall color pattern is 
Bi-color.......I could be wrong, but I doubt it...lol...FB
            --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
wrote:


            From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
            Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi Color
            To: genoaktortoise@xxxxxxxxxxx, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            Cc: floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "freelist" 
<showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
            Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 2:23 PM


            EH???  This is not true.  A true bi color does not have a gray 
undercoat.
            A true bi color is just that.   BI......TWO ...colors.  
BLACK.....with some tan "sharp" cut off markings.   NO fading
            or blending into colors.   As Ed says....much like a Dobie or 
Rottie. 
            My bi colors ( G.V. BOSS included ) was solid black with NO 
markings anywhere except under the tail and 
            partially up his legs.    Have had a couple with some gray 
undercoat and I personally do not consider them a 
            true bi color as there is also often some other tiny shading or 
blending of colors on the neck, chest, belly.....etc.
            At first glance they give you the 'impression'Â of being a 
bi-color....but truly are not. 
            G.V. BONO was called a Bi Color by many....but having bred 
him.......in my opinion he was not a true bi color.   
            BONO was ( IMO ) a very dark blanket black and tan that carried 
the black factor.
            I don't know that he ever produced any bi colors either???  
Edie???

            Carolyn  marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
            www.Marhaven.com

            Â ----- Original Message ----- 
            Â From: Amy Greenhut To: edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: 
floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 1:08 PM
            Â Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Information on a Bi Color

            Â A true bi-color will have a gray undercoat. But out of all the 
bi-colors that I have had or have now only one had a gray undercoat. So...to me 
a bi-color is an all black dog with tan legs and feet, always black on the 
hocks and usually a solid black head but there can be a little tan on the head 
but not much. Sometimes there will be white on the chest also. Tanya......I 
will e-mail you privately a picture of Harley and Missy. Harley was the 
blackest bi-color I have ever owned. Both Harley and Missy has black on their 
toes. I love black toes, lol.    Amy Greenhut 


            Â ----- Original Message ----- 
            Â From: "Edwin Hill" <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] 
Re: Information on a Bi Color 
            Â you'll get lots of different views on what folks believe a 
Bi-color is...lol...Bi-colors are my favorite of all the color
               patterns...( I don't own one, go figure)...my view is that� 
a Bi-color German Shepherd Dog is a�dog with the
            Â Â Â basic "pattern" of a Dobe or Rott....and he must have BLACK 
on the�hocks...anything short of this to�me is a black and tan with a 
blanket...many will disagree...and I may even be wrong, but I don't think 
so...lol...FB 
            Â --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Tanya D'Armand 
<floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 


            Â From: Tanya D'Armand <floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > 
            Â I was having a discussion with someone about what exactly is a bi 
color.   Ok, the dog is mostly black, 
            Â has a bit of tan on the cheeks, tan on the lower part of the legs 
but black   head.� I was told that a true 
             bi color had a grey undercoat.� Is that true?� Or is there 
something other IÂ need to be looking for??? 
            Â The reason is I have a puppy that I personally feel is a very, 
dark black/tan but someone else says 
             bi.� Help, 
            Â Tanya D'Armand 
            Â Jasmine Acres GSD 
            Â www.jasmineacresgsd.com 




            
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          ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN 
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POST is Copyrighted 2008.  All material remains the property of the original 
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind 
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the 
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 

ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY 
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS 
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are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the 
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 

ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY 
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS 
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