[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: sable Bi Color
- From: Edwin Hill <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, freelist <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:19:23 -0700 (PDT)
never seen a sable with black hocks...but no , a sable with black hocks is a
sable...a dog marked with the classic Dobe and Rott pattern with black hocks is
a Bi!...lol...Ed
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: sable Bi Color
To: "Edwin Hill" <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "freelist" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 5:40 PM
I've seen some absolutely stunning black sables out of East German and Czeck
lines that are more
beautifully intense in color than any of our sables.......and they have the
pencil marks on the toes and
the black hocks. Would that make them a sable bi-color? <G> Or a
bi-color sable?
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Edwin Hill To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist Sent: Friday, July
10, 2009 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi Color
to me...Bono's black hocks make him a Bi-color...another example is Ch.
Joe Black...many do not believe he is a Bi-color including his owners...both
are Bi's...Now Evan's Big Ben does not have black hocks,,,,so he's a dark
blanket black and tan....just as there are faded pigments in black and tans,
there are differences in color pigments in Bi-colors...but the pattern holds
true.......FB
In this instance I agree with Carolyn. Bono didn't have stenciled
toes
that I can see. While he did have black hocks, the transition from
tan to
black on his legs wasn't sharp. It was gradual. Of course the real
proof would be if he was ever bred to
a bi-color or black and produced a (dark blanket) black &
tan. Anyone? Liz
_www.lealynn.com_ (http://www.lealynn.com/)
--- From: Carolyn Martello marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
NAW.........he wasn't a Bi - Color. Go to my web site below. He's
on the first page....don't even have
to search.
You can see the color and shadings up around his elbow and upper arm
and where his hocks met
his rear quarters. Shadings of a different color.....even up above
his hock starting on his stifles.
Not a true Bi. Look again........
Bono had a small white patch on his chest......but that is not what
I'm talking about.
His sire was a dark blanket black and tan that carried the black
factor. BOSS just made BONO a darker
blanket black and tan. I know BeBe produced Bi Colors.....but BONO
wasn't one....not with those shadings
of color.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Edwin Hill To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist Sent:
Friday, July 10, 2009 3:23 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi Color
Bi-colors can be tricky, hence the discussion and the different
opinions...Bono was bred by Carolyn, but the bitch was owned by me and leased
to Carolyn...In my opinion Bono IS a bi-color.....his dam's genotype was
BlkTan/Bi-color....Gv Bono's dam had several itters and several puppies were
Bi-colors....one of these Bi-colors lives about two miles from me. All
Bi-colors do not look alike just as all sables do not look alike.....because of
the other gene for color "incomplete dominence" plays a part in many variations
in color patterns...So while Boss did not look like his Grandson Bono/.....I
believe they were both Bi-colors.....Bi-colors can have white on the
chest...which would give them three colors....but the overall color pattern is
Bi-color.......I could be wrong, but I doubt it...lol...FB
--- On Fri, 7/10/09, Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi Color
To: genoaktortoise@xxxxxxxxxxx, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "freelist"
<showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 2:23 PM
EH???  This is not true.  A true bi color does not have a gray
undercoat.
A true bi color is just that.   BI......TWO ...colors. Â
BLACK.....with some tan "sharp" cut off markings.   NO fading
or blending into colors.   As Ed says....much like a Dobie or
Rottie.
My bi colors ( G.V. BOSS included ) was solid black with NO
markings anywhere except under the tail and
partially up his legs.    Have had a couple with some gray
undercoat and I personally do not consider them a
true bi color as there is also often some other tiny shading or
blending of colors on the neck, chest, belly.....etc.
At first glance they give you the 'impression'Â of being a
bi-color....but truly are not.Â
G.V. BONO was called a Bi Color by many....but having bred
him.......in my opinion he was not a true bi color.  Â
BONO was ( IMO ) a very dark blanket black and tan that carried
the black factor.
I don't know that he ever produced any bi colors either??? Â
Edie???
Carolyn  marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Amy Greenhut To: edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc:
floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 1:08 PM
 Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Information on a Bi Color
 A true bi-color will have a gray undercoat. But out of all the
bi-colors that I have had or have now only one had a gray undercoat. So...to me
a bi-color is an all black dog with tan legs and feet, always black on the
hocks and usually a solid black head but there can be a little tan on the head
but not much. Sometimes there will be white on the chest also. Tanya......I
will e-mail you privately a picture of Harley and Missy. Harley was the
blackest bi-color I have ever owned. Both Harley and Missy has black on their
toes. I love black toes, lol.    Amy Greenhut
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Edwin Hill" <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ]
Re: Information on a Bi Color
 you'll get lots of different views on what folks believe a
Bi-color is...lol...Bi-colors are my favorite of all the color
   patterns...( I don't own one, go figure)...my view is that�
a Bi-color German Shepherd Dog is a�dog with the
   basic "pattern" of a Dobe or Rott....and he must have BLACK
on the�hocks...anything short of this to�me is a black and tan with a
blanket...many will disagree...and I may even be wrong, but I don't think
so...lol...FB
 --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Tanya D'Armand
<floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 From: Tanya D'Armand <floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
 I was having a discussion with someone about what exactly is a bi
color.   Ok, the dog is mostly black,
 has a bit of tan on the cheeks, tan on the lower part of the legs
but black   head.� I was told that a true
 bi color had a grey undercoat.� Is that true?� Or is there
something other IÂ need to be looking for???
 The reason is I have a puppy that I personally feel is a very,
dark black/tan but someone else says
 bi.� Help,
 Tanya D'Armand
 Jasmine Acres GSD
 www.jasmineacresgsd.com
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POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of
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the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN
ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
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is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author
and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are
permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l
Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
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POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original
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are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
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