[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: sable Bi Color

  • From: Amy Greenhut <genoaktortoise@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:48:19 +0000 (UTC)


Either or!!!!!!!!!!.  They are beautiful. If I was going to have a sable that 
would be the color. Someone that I know breeds sables like that and I remember 
asking her one day....do you think that you will have any sable bi-colors. 
lol!!!!! 


Amy Greenhut 
Justrock German Shepherds 
Gen Oak Leopard Tortoises &  Tortoise Rescue 
Behold The Turtle,  He Makes Progress Only When He Sticks His Neck Out 
A Quote By James B. Conant 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
To: "Edwin Hill" <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "freelist" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 8:40:47 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: sable  Bi Color 

I've seen some absolutely stunning black sables out of East German and Czeck 
lines that are more 
beautifully intense in color than any of our sables.......and they have the 
pencil marks on the toes and 
the black hocks.    Would that make them a sable bi-color?     <G>   Or a 
bi-color sable? 

Carolyn    marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
www.Marhaven.com 



----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Edwin Hill To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist Sent: Friday, July 
10, 2009 4:47 PM 
  Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi Color 


        to me...Bono's black hocks make him a Bi-color...another example 
is Ch. Joe Black...many do not believe he is a Bi-color including his 
owners...both are Bi's...Now Evan's Big Ben does not have black hocks,,,,so 
he's a dark blanket black and tan....just as there are faded pigments in black 
and tans, there are differences in color pigments in Bi-colors...but the 
pattern holds true.......FB 

        In this instance I agree with Carolyn.  Bono didn't have 
stenciled  toes 
        that I can see.  While he did have black hocks, the transition 
from  tan to 
        black on his legs wasn't sharp.  It was gradual.  Of course the 
real proof would be if he was ever bred to 
         a bi-color or  black and produced a (dark blanket) black & tan. 
  Anyone?   Liz 
        _www.lealynn.com_ (http://www.lealynn.com/) 



        --- From: Carolyn Martello marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

          NAW.........he wasn't a Bi - Color.   Go to my web site below. 
  He's on the first page....don't even have 
          to search. 
          You can see the color and shadings up around his elbow and 
upper arm and where his hocks met 
          his rear quarters.   Shadings of a different color.....even up 
above his hock starting on his stifles. 
          Not a true Bi.   Look again........ 
          Bono had a small white patch on his chest......but that is not 
what I'm talking about. 
          His sire was a dark blanket black and tan that carried the 
black factor.    BOSS just made BONO a darker 
          blanket black and tan.   I know BeBe produced Bi 
Colors.....but BONO wasn't one....not with those shadings 
          of color. 

          Carolyn    marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
          www.Marhaven.com 

            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Edwin Hill To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist 
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 3:23 PM 
            Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi 
Color 


            Bi-colors can be tricky, hence the discussion and the 
different opinions...Bono was bred by Carolyn, but the bitch was owned by me 
and leased to Carolyn...In my opinion Bono IS a bi-color.....his dam's genotype 
was BlkTan/Bi-color....Gv Bono's dam had several itters and several puppies 
were Bi-colors....one of these Bi-colors lives about two miles from me. All 
Bi-colors do not look alike just as all sables do not look alike.....because of 
the other gene for color "incomplete dominence" plays a part in many variations 
in color patterns...So while Boss did not look like his Grandson Bono/.....I 
believe they were both Bi-colors.....Bi-colors can have white on the 
chest...which would give them three colors....but the overall color pattern is 
Bi-color.......I could be wrong, but I doubt it...lol...FB 
            --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Carolyn Martello 
<marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 


            From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
            Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: incorrect Information on a Bi 
Color 
            To: genoaktortoise@xxxxxxxxxxx, edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            Cc: floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "freelist" 
<showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
            Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 2:23 PM 


            EH???� � This is not true.� � A true bi color does 
not have a gray undercoat. 
            A true bi color is just that.� � � BI......TWO 
...colors.� � BLACK.....with some tan "sharp"� cut off markings.� � 
� NO fading 
            or blending into colors.� � � As Ed says....much like 
a Dobie or Rottie. 
            My bi colors� ( G.V. BOSS included )� was solid black 
with NO markings anywhere except under the tail and 
            partially up his legs.� � � � Have had a couple with 
some gray undercoat and I personally do not consider them a 
            true bi color as there is also often some other tiny shading 
or blending of colors on the neck, chest, belly.....etc. 
            At first glance they give you the 'impression'� of being a 
bi-color....but truly are not.� 
            G.V. BONO was called a Bi Color by many....but having bred 
him.......in my opinion he was not a true bi color.� � � 
            BONO� was� ( IMO )� a very dark blanket black and tan 
that carried the black factor. 
            I don't know that he ever produced any bi colors 
either???� � Edie??? 

            Carolyn� � marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            www.Marhaven.com 

            � ----- Original Message ----- 
            � From: Amy Greenhut To: edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: 
floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; freelist Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 1:08 PM 
            � Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Information on a Bi Color 

            � A true bi-color will have a gray undercoat. But out of 
all the bi-colors that I have had or have now only one had a gray undercoat. 
So...to me a bi-color is an all black dog with tan legs and feet, always black 
on the hocks and usually a solid black head but there can be a little tan on 
the head but not much. Sometimes there will be white on the chest also. 
Tanya......I will e-mail you privately a picture of Harley and Missy. Harley 
was the blackest bi-color I have ever owned. Both Harley and Missy has black on 
their toes. I love black toes, lol.� � � � Amy Greenhut 


            � ----- Original Message ----- 
            � From: "Edwin Hill" <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ 
SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Information on a Bi Color 
            � you'll get lots of different views on what folks believe 
a Bi-color is...lol...Bi-colors are my favorite of all the color 
            � � � patterns...( I don't own one, go figure)...my 
view is that� a Bi-color German Shepherd Dog is a�dog with the 
            � � � basic "pattern" of a Dobe or Rott....and he must 
have BLACK on the�hocks...anything short of this to�me is a black and tan 
with a blanket...many will disagree...and I may even be wrong, but I don't 
think so...lol...FB 
            � --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Tanya D'Armand 
<floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 


            � From: Tanya D'Armand <floridacracker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > 
            � I was having a discussion with someone about what 
exactly is a bi color.� � � Ok, the dog is mostly black, 
            � has a bit of tan on the cheeks, tan on the lower part of 
the legs but black� � � head.� I was told that a true 
            � bi color had a grey undercoat.� Is that true?� Or is 
there something other I� need to be looking for??? 
            � The reason is I have a puppy that I personally feel is a 
very, dark black/tan but someone else says 
            � bi.� Help, 
            � Tanya D'Armand 
            � Jasmine Acres GSD 
            � www.jasmineacresgsd.com 




           
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POST is Copyrighted 2008.  All material remains the property of the original 
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind 
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the 
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 

ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY 
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS 
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY 
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE 
PROSECUTED. 

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POST is Copyrighted 2008.  All material remains the property of the original 
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind 
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the 
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 

ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY 
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS 
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY 
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE 
PROSECUTED. 

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