[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: movement....NOT!
- From: "" <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Cinosam GSD" <cinosamgsd@xxxxxxxxx>, edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxx, "The List" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:24:38 -0500
AMEN to this. have often walked away wondering if the judge was
intentionally trying to beat the dog that he/she had in front. Seems as if
they are "looking for something" to penalize the dog for. I have a saying "
Study long..study wrong" It applies to dogs as well as at the racetrack.
All the talk about motion is neither here nor there. The huge National ring
is the equalizer. Dogs that take many steps are forever getting around the
ring..dogs that cover the maximum amount of ground with the fewest steps
can literally lap a dog that is moving like a terrier.The large National
ring usually brings to light weak, rolly backs, dragging rears, short
fronts, you name it.Dogs that you thought looked "great": sometimes don't
looks so hot in the big ring. Generally the longer an efficient dog
moves..the better he gets, the longer the faulty mover goes, the more his
faults show.As for " to reward or not to reward" various faults of gait,
from a breeder/judge standpoint, I could see rewarding a dog that was
faulty in the rear, but had a superior front, if I felt the breed was
headed in the direction of poor forehands, such as is today.The opposite
would apply as well. If the breed seemed to be in need of stronger rears,
than perhaps a dog should be rewarded that demonstrated that attribute,
again in hopes that the fancy would follow suit and breed to improve that
fault. Breeding, judging , whatever is give and take. Most breeding is
compensation breeding. So, sometimes you need to reward an attribute, in
hopes that the fancy will get the hint and follow suit. I would hope that
common sense would prevail and that breeders would not breed a bitch that
demonstrated the same fault to a dog that also had the same fault.
Unfortunately, some do, as is evidenced by the poor fronts we are currently
seeing. JMHO Christine
hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Steve and Christine Grainger
WWW.HICKORYHILLGSD.COM
> [Original Message]
> From: Cinosam GSD <cinosamgsd@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxx>; The List <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 7/15/2008 10:22:05 AM
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: movement....NOT!
>
> My absolute biggest pet peeve in ring procedure is when a judge has his
dogs in the order he likes them, but then decides to do the down and back
one more time. At this point he does a major shuffle of all the dogs,
putting a lessor sidegaiter up front; thus suggesting that the other dog(s)
were faulty in their down and backs. IMO this is fault judging. Worse
yet, the implication to all of us ringside is that the other dog(s) have
major faults coming and going which more often then not, is not true; else
why didn't he catch it on the individual.
>
> I personally prefer a judge that has his top picks in the first few
passes (the WOW factor) reinforces those picks on the individuals and then
lets those top dogs battle it out with a few more turns in the ring.
>
> Cindy
>
>
>
>
> ANN SCHULTZ <edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Yes, they can have outstanding side gait from the side and be faulty
coming and going and still work all day and do it more efficiently then a
dog with no extension at all from the side. As you said coming and going
and side movement are all to be faulted, but my argument is that squeaky
clean coming and going will win over outstanding side gait, even though the
dog can't move out of its own way, which is a serious fault. Ann Kay
Reamensnyder Betty Doerpinghaus wrote: I would tend to agree with
you........
> however, in defense of NONbreeder judges......
> remember how our standard reads (the very last sentence
> of the standard): "Faults of gait, whether from front, rear
> or side, are to be considered very serious faults.
> If we want sidegait to have preference, the standard should
> say just that.
> Also, there are faults in gait that are just as obvious from the
> side as from coming and going.......for example, locked hocks
> are just as obvious from observing side gait as well as observing
> going away.....as are padding, flipping etc. coming at you.
>
> So, hypothetically speaking, the question is really this:
> Can a dog with faults coming and going really have correct gait
> from the side????
>
> Kay
> -Kay Reamensnyder and Betty Doerpinghaus -Home of Bedkar German Shepherds
-bedkar@xxxxx -Visit our Website: www.bedkargsd.com > From:
firethorntemple@xxxxxxxxx> To: nancy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> CC:
ELG440@xxxxxxx> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: movement....NOT!> Date: Mon, 14
Jul 2008 16:09:43 -0500> > Okay, so here's a hypothetical. You're deciding
between two dogs for the> points.One is less than 100% either going away or
coming in, or maybe even> both. Not gruesome, but not 100%.However, his
type is beautiful and he's a> drop dead gorgeous sidegaiter. The second dog
is clean as a pin coming and> going,but "just a dog" in terms of type and
motion.Not bad, but clearly not> as good as the first dog in type or
sidegait. Which one do you put up ? No> fence riding. My take is that most
all-breed judges would put up the second> dog, most specialty judges the
first.> > tom elkins> Firethorn Temple> -----Original
> Message-----> From: showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]> On Behalf Of Nancy Harper> Sent:
Monday, July 14, 2008 10:38 AM> To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx; The List> Cc: ELG440@xxxxxxx> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re:
movement....NOT!> > I am not going to Kill you now Carolyn because I agree
with you. I think > the overly long lower stifle has thrown our dogs out of
balance. They are > compensating for this by doing whatever they can to
move forward. i.e. > dragging toes, locking up, etc.> ----- Original
Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Martello" > To: ; "The List" > Cc: > Sent:
Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:26 PM> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re:
movement....NOT!> > > I say, if they have a locked hock, let's eat them. It
solves the problem > inthe breed,> and cuts down on our food bill at the
same time A win/win situation. > Evan> ****************************
> ************************************************> *******> Evan,That
won't work--we'll never have another major at a dog show, since > there>
are a heck of a lot of locked hocks being shown! hehehe Penny in NY>
========================================================> > That seems to
be the case at many shows. It appears to me that in the> fascination for
seeking the extra inch of front extension..... our Breed is > seriously>
lacking in it's major force of movement.......the powerful rear thrust from
> a correct> and powerful driving rear......and a good back to transmit
that power > through to> the front. The best solution for many of the dogs
is to rotate the stifle > outward in> the rear follow through to keep from
dragging it's toes.....> A dog like that cannot stop and twist and turn to
herd sheep....and we are > losing> the tails as rudders for
balance.......they are more like a dead flopping > rag.> > No wonder our
handlers are holding the dogs up and holding them to
> gether to> navigate a few turns around the ring. No wonder we're
dependent upon our> handlers to have a powerful left arm......we don't have
that power in our > dogs.> > Kill me now......................I'm useless
on the food chain anyway. > > > Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
www.Marhaven.com> >
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>
> Ann Home of Sel Ex # 6 Ch Maxwell, Sel Ex Ch Gilley and #1 Dam Muggles -
owner/breeder of 66 champions and 19 ROMs
>
>
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> Cindy
> www.cinosamgsd.com
>
>
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are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
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