I counted 13 people who asked me to show them the difference about lay on and lay back this last weekend. We did hands on, right on their dogs. It was like a light bulb went on. As one exhibitor told me, "now it clicked". Sometimes we just need to take the time and mentor a fellow dog lover. * Ileana * Inquest GSD's, Home of : 2 x Sel EX AM CH & Sel CAN CH Karizma's Cacique of Inquest TC, aka DEXTER Kaleef's Expensive Date (major pointed) aka JACKIE In a message dated 6/30/2011 10:09:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, carolynmckenna@xxxxxxxxx writes: Both refer to the shoulder blade. Lay back is the angle of the blade to the ground, usually preferred to be 45 %. (BTW, this is true of almost all breeds) Lay on is more difficult to explain without a picture so just picture looking at a dog from the front. You see the shoulders angling inward toward the top, not straight up and down. This is the reason there should be no more than two fingers' width between the blades. If more than two fingers fit between the top of the blades, the lay on is not correct. ( BTW again, this is spelled out precisely in many standards) Carolyn ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================