I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing; just if a dog is good it will finish quicker than one who isn't. I agree with you, boys don't look like "males" until they are 3, sometimes even 4. (That's why I don't usually take a special out until late 3...) Not all people finish them young Penny because they are afraid they will die early...Cody, JR, Solo, now Vinnie all finished young. Cody was over 11 when he died (cancer), JR will be 10 in less than 2 weeks and just sired a litter. As far as the girls, lately I go the other way. I want them to show me they can successfully conceive/have and raise a litter WITH NO FUSS. Over the years I've had 2 bitch CHs that have only had one litter. Had I known that going in, I would have bred them at 2 or 2 1/2 and let them have a litter before campaigning them. My experience is if a bitch hasn't successfully had a litter by a certain point (and who knows? for some it can be as early as 4) it CAN be an uphill battle. Note I didn't say all...but it CAN be. My CH Mattie's mother only had 2 puppies in her life. She wasn't mine, but I'll bet her owners would trade some of those group photos for a few of her progeny. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) In a message dated 6/25/2011 11:44:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fairway97045@xxxxxxxxx writes: Would someone please explain to me why finishing young is a good thing. I just don't get it. Males don't even look like males until they are 3. They are little more than a life support system for a penis as teenagers. Females mature faster and if you are going to breed them I can understand the push. But males???? Terry ____________________________________ From: "Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx" <Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx> To: Scharo777@xxxxxxx; Stormy435@xxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sat, June 25, 2011 4:37:23 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: interesting comment I agree. We have a way to go on health. It hasn't gotten worse, but in some instances, not better either. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) In a message dated 6/25/2011 7:12:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _Scharo777@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Scharo777@xxxxxxx) writes: Soundness is definitely better today, also Carol In a message dated 6/25/2011 5:34:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, _Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx) writes: Sounds like sour grapes. All you have to do is look at the classes today...people in the know don't even bother keeping, let alone showing dogs who won't finish. The good ones finish quick and they finish young; then they are put away to special in a few years. In the "old days" it was a family affair, many HUGE classes had a lot of pets...but their people loved them, so no damage done. There are a few people today that show and show and show a dog and maybe eventually finish it. They are in the minority. As far as temperament improving...it certainly has. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit __http://www.pinehillgsds.com/__ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_) (_http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) ) In a message dated 6/25/2011 5:56:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, _Stormy435@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Stormy435@xxxxxxx) writes: This is from another list, and i will paraphrase the heck out of it. Basically, the person's first dog was not from a "specialist" breeder, and would not finish with the quality of dogs that was showing 40 years ago. had a great temperament at a time when dogs being shown were "raving lunatics." The dog could probably finish today was a conclusion. JFYI Stormy ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at _admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx) VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at _admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx) VISIT OUR WEBSITE - _http://showgsd.org_ (http://showgsd.org/) SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/ma il.html NATIONAL BLOG - _http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/_ (http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/) ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at _admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx) VISIT OUR WEBSITE - _http://showgsd.org_ (http://showgsd.org/) SUBSCRIPTION:_http://showgsd.org/mail.html_ (http://showgsd.org/mail.html) NATIONAL BLOG - _http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/_ (http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/) ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================