It seems to me there are three categories. I find most of the breeder judges easy to follow though I have been told that we do have a pod of four or five who tend to practice "trade offs " I will say that most of the specialties that I have attended over the last 50 + years have left me with the impression that breeder judges are, for the most part, quite honest as well as knowledgeable. The all breed ring constitutes the other two categories : one is the ribbon distributor and the other is the knowledgeable adjudicator. The ribbon distributor is the person who doesn't care about actually knowing the breed, merely adding as many breeds as possible. We find these mostly in those who were granted additional breeds back when "who you know" was much more important than what you know. These are many of the older judges who simply have no idea of what a GSD should be. Since these judges are lost as far as the breed is concerned, they are frequently greatly influenced by advertising and rankings. We seldom find this in the specialty ring. In the specialty ring, there are many new "stars" discovered--------not in the all breed ring, just the same old same old. The other ab ring judge is the newer variety. He has been required to attend specialties, often nationals, and often has learned from these experiences. (granted, I have seen judges sleep through these ) These people are trying to learn and are interested in more than simply adding additional breeds. We need to give them a chance to see good dogs so that they do not become as warped as some of the others who have been exposed only to generic dogs. In my area, we have a really great concentration of good dogs, dogs that win in both rings and at the national. Our breeders are educating ab judges as to what a GSD should be. , and it's getting better. There are still those who judge by the advertising and the ratings, but I do feel that we can change this. I do feel that it is much more than an issue of honesty. Honesty is a minute issue when you realize that there is so much incompetence in the ab ring, but you can change that. get the ab ring full of good dogs. OTOH when you know a judge is going to go with a certain kennel, don't enter. Carolyn Carolyn McKenna 361-293-5389 ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================