[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: fading pups
- From: Elsyd1@xxxxxxx
- To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 13:31:09 EDT
HI, this is what I got from my vet after describing the symptoms of these
puppies and their mother...Syd
--------------------------------------------------------------
The â??toxic milkâ?? diagnosis makes little sense, but putting the litter on
antibiotics to cover a possible bacterial problem seems justifiable. It is
certainly true that the lochia discharge is going to be full of bacteria and
that
this is generally not a problem. I have seen puppies consume lochia and
consume overtly mastitic milk with no problems whatsoever. So long as the
bitch
is not overtly ill, it seems unlikely that any of these secretions contain
problematic bacteria. Nevertheless, antibiotic prophylaxis is prudent in this
case.
The most likely source of the problem is the bitchâ??s behavior. She is
probably not taking good care of the pups. In this situation it is likely that
some
of the pups are not being well fed. (Was milk present in the necropsy?)
Nervous mothers can vacillate from being too neglectful to overly attentive to
vicious toward their babies. Sometimes the puppy is simply smothered out of
clumsiness or over-mothering. Detecting this on a gross necropsy can be
difficult if the practitioner is not skilled and thorough. Even in this day of
CSI,
we cannot always recognize the cause of death.
I once had a client bring me 4 GSD puppies over 5 days, each of which was
found dead mysteriously with everyone else perfectly normal. I dutifully
necropsied each pup and because the gross pathology varied from pup to pup, my
diagnosis was trauma inflicted by the mother. The client refused to believe
the
bitch was murdering her babies since she seemed so â??motherlyâ?? until he
found
only half of one puppy in the whelping area. At that point he removed the
remaining puppies and hand raised them successfully.
Even if the pups are being well supplemented now, they may not have received
adequate colostrum during their first feedings on mom. It is possible to
detect this low colostrum situation by checking a blood sample on one or more
puppies. It is not necessary to do an actual antibody measurement; one can
infer the level is adequate if their total serum protein level is normal.
Testing
for serum protein is cheap and easily measured in house. If they did not get
adequate colostrum, corrective action can be taken.
The best one can do with newborn puppies is to make sure they are warm, well
fed, and protected from injury. Hopefully the two puppies lost from this
group will be the end of the problem. If another dies, a thorough necropsy
should be performed with tissue samples taken from every major organ for
histology. Examining the tissues at a microscopic level is the best chance of
reaching
a diagnosis.
Keith D. Norton, DVM
____________________________________
In a message dated 5/21/2005 8:39:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
chcohosh@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
It's me again (and thank you to all who replied on the fear issue - have
shared the suggestions and comments with the mother).
I have a dilemma that I hope some of you folks may shed some light on. Three
days ago I announced the birth of a litter of 12 . I have since lost two -
an autopsy today in his office showed normal organs and no sign of any
disease. I have been supplementing as the dam does not have much milk and is
very nervous about all these pups.
Here is the problem - the vet here in VA (small town) says she has "toxic
milk syndrome". He cultured vaginal discharge and said it was full of
bacteria and puss. I felt that the discharge look normal to my other bitch's
postpartum. It was pink tinged and milky white without order. This in turn
led him to the toxic milk diagnosis. She was x-rayed after delivery and
there was nothing left in the uterus. He gave a shot of penicillin at that
time "to ward off any problems". Now he has said to take her off the pup -
has given antibiotics for both her and the pups.
My vet from PA (who I called for a second opinion) said that he didn't think
that an office autopsy could diagnosis many causes of death in a pup and
advised to send the pup to a clinic/vet school for definitive workup. He
also was not aware of "toxic milk", said all postpartum bitches had bacteria
in the discharge and it could not hurt the pups. He didn't feel the
antibiotics would hurt and said to go ahead of use them. He advises to put
the bitch back with the pups.
The bitch does seem nervous and overwhelmed by all the pups and I know this
can cause a milk problem.
Any one with any words of wisdom out there who has had this problem or knows
about it??
Thanks for any help you might have to give.
Threese - Limited Edition Shepherds (VA)
http://members.aol.com/gsdgodiva/LTDGS.html
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POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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