In a message dated 1/7/2005 5:18:16 PM Mountain Standard Time, EKO LAN1 writes: Your saying that the phenotype does not mirror the genotype. ------------------------------------------------------- That's not at all what I said. I said the genes that are on the outside, that we can see, are a very small portion of the total, and therefore thinking that because you and I both have champion black and tan German shepherds of 26" in height and 90 lbs in weight with dark almond shaped eyes, strong backs, complete dentition, good movement, 8.5 to 10 proportions and good temperaments means that they must be closely related is just a mistake. Environment + genotype = phenotype. Your example of the 10 littermates, one GV, one a poor specimen so one could randomly breed to any of them doesn't work either. If they had identical DNA, they would look identical and one wouldn't be a poor specimen and one a GV. Liz Visit my website at http://hometown.aol.com/rckyiizard/index.html ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================