[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: dogshows/fair/unfair/long response
- From: WLFHRTGSD@xxxxxxx
- To: Stoneshep2@xxxxxxx, Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:42:27 EST
In a message dated 12/29/04 12:02:20 PM, Stoneshep2@xxxxxxx writes:
<< Hi Kelly
Yes I have been to many, many dogs shows. I couldn't tell you how many
shows, or how many miles I have traveled with my parents.
I see what happens, I see the handlers,
and I also watch the dogs that are in the ring. Do they have a good
front,back, are they clean in the rear, temperament, their gait,
I see what happens, I know who the person is, if they are there, that is the
person who is going to win, no matter what.
I know about all the advertising that goes on,
Not every one can afford to advertise , every week, or every month,
if you have money, does that mean you have a good dog? NOT !!!!
Too bad the judges see who is handling the dog
If the judges didn't see a face behind the dog,
In my opinion, the dog would win, not the handler.
Thanks
Christina
============================================================= >>
Hi Christina - thanks for your long response - helps me to better frame my
answers, since you obviously have observed many shows.
First, consider there are two types of shows - "All-Breeds" and
"Specialties". The judging can be VERY different. To become a judge, you must
have been a
member of the parent club 12 years, have bred 5 litters (on your premises)
and produced 4 champions combined from those litters. I also think those 4
champs must be owned & raised by you. Those are the BASIC starting
requirements.
Before you get your judging liscense for your breed, you must complete a
number of provisional judging assignments. An example is a B Match. That is
the
extent of my knowlege on becoming a judge. Some judges prefer to stick with
judging only their breed, others continue to get liscensed to judge other
breeds. Since it would be virtually impossible, say for the herding group, to
be in
each Parent Club, breed 5 litters including 4 champions, a judge obtains
liscensing on other breeds via different methods of testing. I don't know
anything about it - but I'm sure one of the other listers can fill in the
blanks. At
a specialty, your dog is being judged by someone who really knows that breed.
You may not agree with their choices, but they all got to be judges by
meeting the same criteria.
I don't meet the requirements to be a judge, but by now, I know the image I
hold in my head as the "perfect" German shepherd - the one that best meets the
standard. A great deal of this image comes from the quality dogs I have owned
and the wonderful attributes they've had. And I know where each of those
dogs could have had a little more of this or that.
The biggest obstacle to ME trying to pick the winner is I do not look at the
whole package - I look at parts - maybe I don't like that earset, that dog
looks a few degrees off in the angle of the pastern, I like this pigment etc.
A
REAL judge must look at the entire package and not just body parts. My
husband rarely attends shows, but is far more accurate than I am when selecting
a
winner. Because he IS looking at the whole package, and not trying to visually
measure the angle of the shoulder opening. I can watch almost any ring and
basically see a good dog that gaits well and is clean. (Except REALLy long
haired breeds, that one is beyond me - but a short haired breed where I can see
structure I can pick my favorites). Once you've learned basic gait, clean
movement, solid back, etc. you can pretty much separate a decent dog from one
who
isn't really show quality, in almost any breed.
For the record, I tend to believe it's any dog on any given day. Naive,
rose-colored glasses, call it what you want. I choose to believe that when I
enter a show I've got as good a shot as anyone else out there. I also think
most
judges really DO try to do their best. For the specialty show, your dog is
being judged by someone who knows the breed inside and out. At an all-breed,
the judge might have very little experience with German Shepherds, especially
if
they just became liscensed.
Entering shows should not really be a random event - there IS strategy to it.
I show at a lot of all breed shows, but before entering, I see who is
judging and find out what dogs they have put up in the past, how I've done
under
them before, see what my friends recommend, etc. There are a couple all-breed
judges I would NOT show under because I don't think they really know shepherds.
For me, I prefer a judge who has HAD shepherds, and consistently chooses the
same type of dog for their winners. I once went to a show with 84 total GSD's
entered - and this was an all breed. Thank goodness I knew who my handler
was - every dog looked virtually identical to every other one. But this
particular judge was VERY consistent and therefore 84 look-alike dogs showed up
-
each of us believing we could win. 83 of us were wrong.
The handlers who seem to "always" win are out there every weekend and have a
pretty large number of clients to choose from. Very early in my conformation
career, my handler suggested we show my dog at a particular Futurity. My dog
was in the Senior Maturity Class and he DID place. My handler knew that our
best shot was to compete at that particular show under that judge. The
professionals choose their shows and which dogs they will present to that judge
very
carefully. A good handler will tell you not only where you SHOULD go, but
also where you SHOULD NOT go. Of course, over time, I've kept my own records
and
sometimes I make my show decisions solely on my own experiences, especially
with newer or younger handlers who may not have shown under that judge before.
At one show, my handler had his own dog entered in the Open class. My boy
was in Am-Bred and my handler felt he was NOT going to show his dog - he didn't
think he would do anything, and besides he had arrived a bit late and only had
time to groom my dog but not his. I told him I'd get his dog ready and not
to pull him. He wound up going Winners Dog. So you truly never know.
The "big names" make their entire living by showing dogs - and if you don't
win, you don't get clients. So the handlers that "always" win appear to do so
by virtue of who they are. (And sometimes perhaps they do). However, they
are going to enter a dog they are confident the judge will like. They are also
very skilled at presenting the dog WELL. For a handler/dog team to show well,
they must spend time together and learn eachother - what speed does the dog
look best? What kind of collar works best on THIS dog? Do I have to run this
dog 20 minutes to peel them off the ceiling because they love to show and
have to settle down to show properly?
Also, at an all-breed, the judge is bound to time limits set by the AKC -
they are expected to judge 25 dogs per hour. That's about 2 minutes per dog,
allowing for marking the books, changing classes, and presenting awards. If
your
dog is standing on his head (I had a puppy do that - put his head on the
ground and was having a GREAT time, then rolled over. He was quite pleased
with
himself.) Since he decided to do this instead of showing, the judge couldn't
see him presented well and we had no chance for a second look. Now most judges
are pretty forgiving of puppies, they know they are just babies, but even if
they do give you a couple minutes extra if the dog can't act right they don't
have much chance of winning if another dog in the class IS behaving.
When a well known handler steps into the all-breed ring, the judge knows that
the chances of them having a good dog are pretty high - so they WILL get
looked at. If that judge is at all unsure of THEIR ability to judge the breed,
they are going to look to those familiar faces. And yes, they very well could
make a choice based on that. I've seen it happen. It happened to me, and
probably every one else on this list at one time or another. In my case, there
were two dogs in my class. My dog was handled by someone who showed frequently
for me, but didn't really do a lot of conformation. The other dog was shown by
a well known "big name" and won the class, even though he hid between the
handlers legs and would not allow a full exam.
Yet on another day, my dog acted like a total butthead in the ring but that
judge saw enough of what he wanted to see. I'd turned away from the ring,
loving that butthead of mine but frustrated because he'd blown a shot to take a
nice win. And when I turned back to the ring, he had won his class.
Apparently
in between acting like a moron, he'd shown the judge that he was the best dog
in that class that day.
As for the money and advertising, no, most people (myself included) cannot
afford to be out there every weekend or advertise. On the other hand, I know a
couple of judges pretty well and can guarantee that they don't have the time
to sit and read all those show magazines to see who's doing what. They have
jobs, families, and their own life to take care of. We, the everyday
exhibitors, see those slick ads more than the judges I think. Heck, one of the
judges I
know barely has time to answer e-mails, too busy taking care of dogs and
showing or judging every weekend. The other one is far too busy working FOR
the
breed to sit around reading ads as well. I think both of these judges are very
good, honest, and ethical and strong minded enough to NOT be looking at who's
holding the lead.
There is so much into psyching someone out - the ads, the handler, who owns
the dog, etc. that I believe we can defeat OURSELVES by letting the thoughts
into our head that we are NOT going to win because "so and so" is here. One of
my dogs picks up my feelings REALLY easily - and reacts to them. With him, I
can't afford to let myself get all worried about who ELSE is there because it
could affect his performance. So I leave him at least 1/2 an hour before his
ring time. I don't even look at a catalog until then, if at all. Many top
athletes, especially those who train for the Olympics or other high levels of
competition, work with psychologists who help them harness and channel their
anxieties into positive performance energy.
I've trained in martial arts and though I don't go to the workout club
anymore I do workout at home. Martial arts relies as much, if not more, on the
powers of the mind than that of the physical body. Before I got heavy into dog
shows, I played competitive pool. I was on a league, and partners with my
little brother. I was the only girl on the league, most of the guys were in
their
late teens or early 20's.
My brother played there regularly, and everyone knew his reputation and how
good he was. Since lots of the guys on the league had their girlfriends with
them, they pretty much assumed I was his girlfriend, not his sister. When I
was
dating my husband, he was a great pool player and I HATED to play when we
went out shooting pool. I was terrible, and not even remotely interested in
learning the game. (There is a point to this - psychological advantage). And
I
resented him trying to teach me. Years later when I took up the game I begged
my husband to go play. He finally gave in. Knowing that I was a pretty awful
player, he didn't really pay attention (and neither did my opponents in a
match). Mentally, he assumed he'd beat me so he didn't put any thought into
what
he was doing. I am not a fast player, I'm a deliberate player. I only play
fast when I can set my next 3 or 4 shots up quickly in my head. (When you are
playing at tournament level, you stop thinking about getting a ball in and
begin thinking about the next several shots AFTER you sink your first ball).
That first game I played against my husband, by the time he realized I was down
to the 8 ball and he still had a couple left on the table, it was to late for
him to recover and win. I won a lot of games in the league the same way -
whoever I was playing against always made the mistake of not paying attention
to
the table, assuming that I really couldn't play but was hanging out with my
boyfriend. They were wrong.
In comparison, there are a lot of levels of competition at dog shows.
There's me, your basic exhibitor who is aiming for the points and if I get more
than
that, it's icing on the cake. Then there are competitors who come in with
specials, going for the BOB. And above that, the competitors who are very sure
that they will advance to Group 1 and then compete for Best in Show. Attitude
makes a lot of impact.
At that level, it's not unusual for someone to enter two or three shows on
the same weekend and move around if they feel they can do better elsewhere.
News travels VERY fast among the show crowd and for a top handler, a quick
phone
call to someone at another show to find out who's there and they will pull up
and go if they have a better chance of winning THERE. And they have the money
backing them to do it.
Yes, a dog with a tremendous amount of financial backing can be finished even
if they are not the best quality. In the same vein, an incredible dog may
NEVER be a champion if a person loses their job and the time window when their
dog is at their peak of maturity and competiveness. You're going to win a lot
more showing 3 weekends a month instead of one weekend every three months.
Are there dishonest people who will stop at nothing to win? Of course. I see
people out there who don't even LIKE dogs any more!
But for me, and this is just me - I show because I love it. I love the
driving, the hotels, or getting on the road at 4 am, watching the sun rise. I
love
singing in the car since my dog doesn't complain. On the road, I sleep in my
clothes and MY DOG has more luggage than I do! (Except for the National). I
love out of the way gas stations where I can buy cool junk real cheap, a can
of pop, and a bag of gummy worms. I love hot dogs at 9 am. I love seeing
people I haven't seen in awhile, and those who I see often. I love ordering a
pizza in, and fighting with the dog for bed space. Oh yeah I love to win...and
then I love when I get home and can call all my dog friends that WEREN'T at
that show and re-hash every minute of action. I love it as much now as I did
the very first year. I can't imagine my life without dog shows. Nor do I want
to.
I love when families ask if their kids can pet my dog - he adores children,
and is a great ambassador for the breed. I love teaching newer exhibitors
things that will help them. I love when my club holds their show and I get to
work the show. I meet so many people that way.
Right now I have a young handler who shows my boy in breed. She just turned
15, and she not only put his first point on him, but a BOS, and two BOB's. I
love watching her grow, as a handler, and as a person. She just went to her
first dog show two years ago, to watch, and now she's handling for me, and the
last time she got a BOB on him I loved watching her run into that Group ring,
dropping the lead to waist height so he was floating on a loose lead. She
gets better every week, every day. If I can leave nothing else as my legacy to
the breed, at least I've been able to share the love I have for my dogs and my
sport with a young woman who feels the same way, who will carry on and pass on
the love and knowledge I've received from our GSD community. I'm not falling
over in a few days (at least I hope not!) but I really want to work with
bringing young people into the breed and helping junior handlers meet the
people
who can best help them and secure the future of this breed.
I've sure written a LOT - about judging, professional handlers, having a good
dog, money, I hope I've given you an opportunity to get a larger perspective
on what you've already observed in the shows you've attended. Yes, bad things
happen, judges make bad decisions, sometimes a known handler will beat an
unknown handler even if the unknown has the better dog. Are dog shows fair?
You'll have to decide that for yourself. But when you look at the people on
this
list, you'll find people who have devoted YEARS to the business and sport of
showing dogs. I was showing German Shepherds in obedience & tracking before
my handler was even BORN, and you weren't much older. When you look at all of
us who have been in it so very long, you'll have to somehow conclude that we
all think it's fair enough to keep at it, or conclude that we are all a bit
strange.
Bottom line, I win often enough to keep coming back, and lose often enough to
make those wins very special. The short amount of time my dog is actually in
the ring is only a small part of what I love about showing.
Kelly Busse
Wolfheart German Shepherds
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
============================================================================
Other related posts:
- » [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: dogshows/fair/unfair/long response
