[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: color of puppies
- From: "Karen C." <kmc@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:45:39 -0500
Hey all,
With all the confusion about the colors, I've gone back to Ceci's
original post and also looked at the parents of the litter on her web
site. Here's what Ceci originally said: "Bitch just whelped a litter
last night, Since she came from Europe she has had 3 litters with me,
this present litter is out of a all black import whose father is a
bicolor. Hera my bitch comes from a bi color as well and her mother is
sable like her. I have 6 pups, one b&t, 2 solid blacks and 2 strange
looking color who reminds me of a dark weimeraner is this the Blue?"
Okay. So we have a litter from a sable dam who's parents were sable
and bicolor. Because she is sable herself, we know for sure that she
has the sable gene. There is also the potential for her to have
inherited either the black gene or the gene for two-tone (B&T) from
her bicolor parent. Our black male, if he is indeed a solid black, can
only produce black (solid) coat color. If Hera is carrying for
two-tone, she could produce the black and tan puppy. But she could not
produce the solid black babes. If she was carrying black, she could
produce the black pups, but not the B&T one. What's going on here?
Ceci: Can you check your black pups very carefully? Do they have ANY
tan hairs on them at all? Especially look for a ring of tan-colored
hairs around or underneath the anus. Sometimes, that's the only place
they'll have them. If you see any tan on them anywhere at all, then
they are not solid black, but bicolor. And, just like their B&T
littermate, they would be considered two-toned. On the other hand, if
they are truly 100% jet black with no tan hairs on them, (and if there
was no mismating), then their sire must be an extremely dark,
intensive bicolor. He may appear solid black in this case. But
genetically, he would be considered two-toned.
I have to agree with Norma: I can't see any other way for you to have
solid black and B&T pups in the same litter from this breeding. Is it
possible that the babe you think is B&T is really going to be sable? I
don't know... Just throwing that out. On one of those web sites I
gave, they show a sable bitch with very distinct B&T patterning
showing through her coat. Looking at her picture, she looks like a
B&T. But they claim she is sable. Maybe that's a possibility?
As for the blue color, that is inherited separately from A-locus
colors like black and sable. So that's another set of genes
altogether. Your blue puppies are genetically, one of the other
possible GSD colors for this litter in addition to also being blue.
=46MI on this, I'm attaching Salle Ackerman's excellent post. Hope this
helps.
PS: The parents of this litter are VERY, VERY PRETTY!!! :D Wouldn't
I love to get my hot little hands on one of them? ;) Got to get away
from this keyboard now. My head hurts! LOL!!!
Karen C.
kmc@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message follows --
"Salle Ackerman" <tekgirl@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=20
>Like liver, a dog of any agouti pattern can be a blue. Blue is a simple
>recessive with two possible alleles:
>
>D - not blue (this is dominant)
>d - blue dilution
>
>
>Thus, a dog can be
>
>D D - Dog is not a blue and does not carry for it
>
>D d - Dog is not a blue, but carries for it
>
>d d - Dog is a blue
>
>
>
>The B Series - "Black Series"
>
>Contrary to the name, this series does not cause black coat color. We
>already saw that the A series controls that. The B series is the series =
that
>controls whether a dog is Liver. Liver is not just a coat color but =
impacts
>pigment and coat. On a liver dog, everything that is black (nose, pads,
>saddle) becomes a brownish liver color. Depending on what the dog is on =
the
>A series, you could have a liver sable, a liver and tan or a solid =
liver.
>
>Liver is a simple recessive, like white. The possible alleles are:
>
>B - dog's black pigment and coat is unaffected (this is dominant)
>b - black pigment and coat are liver
>
>
>
>Thus, a dog can be
>
>B B - Dog is not a liver and does not carry for it.
>
>B b - Dog is not a liver, but carries for it
>
>b b - Dog is a liver
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