Joan asked that I comment on the relationships between my item 1 and 7. She was specifically referring to croups and overall proportions of the overline (top line) The over line should consist of 3 equal components -wither -back-croup A dog is long when these are not equal ---a dog is stretched(desirable) when these are slightly elongated BUT equal. Usually when a dog is long we refer to the middle piece as being long. This is almost always the result of a short croup or a forward placed shoulder assembly. The croup angle should be approximately 23 degrees and should be evaluated in motion. We see a great deal of short steep croups in many of our dogs which is a compensating factor for a lack of proper hindquarter structure. Many comments were made about the forehand and proper extension and the upper arm length. We do see short upper arms here but more often I see a long upper arm that is straight laid on and a lot of time it is forward placed. This again often results in a long middle piece. I could go on and on but perhaps more if desired later. I think it would be great if we could have general discussion meeting in seminar fashion at the National with one individual acting as moderator and a panel of "experts" discussing our Breed with questions etc from the audience. We need education programs on anatomy-form and function so that everyone is aware of what is correct anatomy and why that is important for proper motion. Thanks, Morton What was was, what is is --but what was is and what is was!! Morton Goldfarb ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================