I don't know Cindy....I've been seeing quite a few West German dogs in the last few years that have quite a bit of rear, but it's easy to diminish what the dog has got when you stack it so short coupled to make that loin appear shorter. As for "high drive" well, "insert word here" drive is so open ended. What one person considers high drive another considers a couch potato. It also depends on which drive one is talking about. I find Strauss has a high prey drive, low/no civil drive, and is just high drive in general when it comes to agility (read, fun kind of insanity xD) In a message dated 6/14/2007 9:45:45 PM Central Standard Time, cinosamgsd@xxxxxxxxx writes: Even German breeders don't necessarily like the roached back, but the only way to achieve any kind of movement with little or no angulation (and they don't want angulation - no sirree) is - Jackie Marcato Shepherds Where it's about function, not flash ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================