It is clear and I have never said otherwise, that Flower Boy is not only
one of the most intelligent people I know, but also one of the most
passionate.
He and I do not agree on how to feed dogs. Neither he or I have a
background in science or nutrition. We both have formed our opinion on living
and
reading, raising dogs, showing dogs, talking to our friends and then
deciding for ourselves.
We both then give our opinions to others. Smart people read, listen and
then make up their own minds.
You have to decide what is right for your dogs, and your selves. We have
heard from people who have had great success such as Carolyn, those with a
great sense of humor, such as Dave, and those who have strong opinions such
as Jenn. Some use sarcasm, some use humor, some use reason, and some
hyperbole. All are valid ways to convey information.
The rest is up to you.
For some reason every time I think about it, I crave a Big Mac.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Evan
In a message dated 1/28/2016 8:34:34 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Facts? We don't want facts, we want tours of dog food plants! You know ,
we talk about the wellbeing of our pets and we ignore the most basic,
fundamental step in the health for any living creature DIET! I'll tell you a
secret, the vets know the K9 diet is crap, but their noses are so far up "big
dog food companies $&&-9, that they take the money and look the other way,
I'll use an analogy that may get me in trouble with the Admin, but I'll take
the risk, the vet/dog food company is .... No I have changed my mind...
Not going there, Stormy has enough things to do besides reigning me back in
line! Working on my video tomorrow ... If I can save one dog, it's worth it.
Hang in there Jen, somebody might me listening! Ed
Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
------ Original Message ------
From: Jen Proud
To: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: freelist
Sent: January 28, 2016 at 8:09 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: You just take your chances
For those who don't know, here are a few surprising feed facts:
To be AAFCO "complete and balanced" (now do remember, AAFCO is
independent, a place where the feed companies send their completed product to
to get
"certified"), the feed is tested on 8 dogs. Most often, Beagles, as they are
small and typically easy to keep, and even bred just for research trials.
The Beagles are fed the feed for 26 weeks at the manufacturer's recommended
amount, and if they loose 15% of their body weight or less, the food
passes. Stool quality nor palatability matter, just that the dogs finish at
85%
or higher of their starting weight. (And weight gain is not counted,
regardless of formula. All "formulas" are tested on 8 adult dogs.)
Feed companies are for-profit companies. That said, of course, they are
looking to maximize profits for their for-profit corporation. Period. Corn,
wheat, soy, rice, oats, and barley are all cheaper than meat, fish,
potatoes, peas, and even meat-by-products! Of course it behooves the company
to
use the less expensive ingredients to expand volume in the bag. Many people
are even fooled into believing that they need that "filler". (The history
of how grain got into dog food is another story for another day) I have
read the labels of many, many veterinary diets that don't even contain ANY
meat whatsoever. Not even for cats (more about that below)!!
Feed companies have our best interests so much in thought that companies
such as "Blue" have been sued 3 times in the last 5 years, AND LOST. Twice
for false advertising, and once for falsifying labels... This last time
because their "life bits" have both corn in them, and are less nutritive than
the rest of the kibble. I first learned about the last lawsuit reading one
of the many veterinary journals to which I subscribe.
I have nothing to lose, nor gain by sharing this information with both you
and my clients, but for having happier, healthier, less obese, less
hyperactive patients. I do not sell prescription diets at my clinic, matter of
fact, I try to have new clients who come to me with a pet on one get OFF of
it! There are better choices available, even for those who will stay on a
kibble formula. !!! I should push the crap... We would be even busier with
the sick! Alas, we actually have a care for the health & well-being of
patients. What a concept!
That we are an integrative clinic, our cancer patients get handed a stack
of appropriate recipes for home made food; part of our standard treatment
plan. Currently, we have hemangiosarcoma and osteosarcoma affected dogs who
should have been dead 5 or more months ago (as diagnosed), who are yet
thriving and not taking traditional chemotherapy, but being managed with
herbs, diet, lifestyle, and living well and gracefully. Imagine your dog
living
for over a year post hemangiosarcoma surgery! Or better yet, imagine
living a lifestyle conducive to never getting it...
Talk to a veterinary nutritionist, and they will tell you: the best way
to feed your dog (opportunistic scavenger) or cat (obligate carnivore)
animal companion is (from best to least):
1) balanced commercial raw (just because most people want convenience AND
aren't able (read: competent) to give a completely nutrition balanced diet
overall)
2) homemade raw/ homecook
And moving down to kibble:
3) grain-free premium kibble
4) regular premium kibble
5) kibble (non-premium)
In my recent reading, I learned the feline Hill's Prescription Diets don't
even have meat in them whatsoever. And WTH that's for an obligate
carnivore! There are vets who are snowed by the same thinking that
prescription
diets are the answer... I recently met a patient who was half dead after
being diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and placed on the "thyroid diet" from
Hill's (shame on you FB for making that brand!!! LOL) and told by the
diagnosing veterinarian to the owner the patient needed that food, not the
medicine
that manages hyperthyroidism. Well, after 3 months of continuing to go
down hill for 'some reason', they showed up at our door. We read the
bloodwork that was performed by the other veterinarian, and immediately placed
the
cat on appropriate hyperthyroid treatment. She is now thriving, and
incidentally, eating half home-cook and half quality grain-free kibble.
Here's a dog factoid: many "senior" feeds reduce protein to "spare the
kidneys", with prescription diets being the most protein restricted (except
for one brand). Fact is, as the body ages, the kidneys are less able to
retain protein, and the body needs to take in MORE, not LESS protein for the
body to maintain condition. What needs to be restricted is phosphorus!
Apparently someone remembered the wrong "p" when formulating the dog food. !!!
(But then, many dog foods are wrongly calcium:phosphorus balanced. It's
2:1; 1.94:1 to be exact. Just like what is found in healthy bone)
With the (quality grain free) kibble I do feed, my puppies eat from the
same bag as my adults, the pregnant and nursing, seniors & 13 clubbers (aka
the beloved geriatric).
(And I've had 4 straight generations of 13 clubbers behind my current
youngster, one of the old farts even was EPI affected and still lived to over
13 years old and died of unrelated to EPI causes)
This has been a public service announcement from
Jen P & her Pack not telling people what to feed, but just what the facts
are
On Thursday, January 28, 2016, Redacted sender ELG440 for DMARC
<_dmarc-noreply@freelists.org_ (mailto:dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) > wrote:
We had a good friend that worked for a major dog food company. He showed
us the lab and gave us the information on how much they spent on research
and development of the best food possible.
Other than that, I don't know if they did or didn't try to kill as many
dogs as they could.
Evan
In a message dated 1/28/2016 4:55:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
_edwinx@comcast.net_
(mip://0d549228/JAVASCRIPT-BLOCKED_e({},'cvml','edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx');) writes:
Jen, folks believe that Kibble is the "Holly Grail" of dog food and "big
business dog food company" is looking out for their dogs best interest, I
don't understand it, it flys in the face of science and common sense , but
there was a time folks thought the world was flat.. We humans are evolving,
some faster than others! Think I'm having McDonald's tonight! FB
Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
------ Original Message ------
From: Jen Proud
To: _dmarc-noreply@freelists.org_
(mip://0d549228/JAVASCRIPT-BLOCKED_e({},'cvml','dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx');)
Cc: freelist
Sent: January 28, 2016 at 4:00 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: You just take your chances
Cooking/processing don't remove the hormones, etc if they were present
upon slaughter of said animal used for food.
GMO grains, the same; there is no way to be rid of "round-up ready" in
GMOs. Best to avoid those grains altogether.
Unless you're on a well, there are more unregulated chemicals in processed
water than you would ever suspect... Far more than is present in meat, and
far more dangerous too. There are antidepressants in every city's water
supply, and most often, things like euthanasia solution too along with
fluoride and chlorine (both neurotoxins, BTW)!
The only way to avoid it all is to grow your own, or know your grower,
become a "foodie", and get your water from a well in a non-agricultural area
after it is tested for those regulated water pollutants.
Much of the meat that goes into dog food is what is "not fit for human
consumption" and even less regulated than what is "fit". In defense of the raw
feeders, at least the meat fed is generally approved for human
consumption, so therefore of a general better quality than what goes into many
commercial dog foods. I know when my dogs were fed exclusively raw/homecook,
people always thought I was throwing big BBQs by judging my shopping cart's
contents LOL
Jen P & her Pack
On Thursday, January 28, 2016, Redacted sender ELG440 for DMARC
<_dmarc-noreply@freelists.org_
(mip://0d549228/JAVASCRIPT-BLOCKED_e({},'cvml','dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx');)
wrote:
