I hear about top producers, ROM bitches.... etc.... that never achieved their championship, and were never shown in the show ring, and most people would never know about. There's a top breeder who always says "if you like the dog, breed to the sire." To me, shows are a chance to see what I should be breeding FOR. The selects at the National are the quality of dog I should be trying to produce..... they have the package deal I should desire.... but they aren't necesarily what I should be breeding TO. Those two things could be very different..... depending on what your starting with. Sean ELG440@xxxxxxx wrote: In a message dated 8/10/05 10:04:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, InquestGSD writes: But the fact remains, dog shows are one of the ways used to evaluate breeding stock. And yes, you can disagree with my correctness. We may be splitting hairs here. I agree that people who go to dog shows often do so to evaluate the dogs to determine if they are going to breed to them or not. It has often been said that people breed to the dogs that win, I do not agree. I believe the reason that there seems to be a relationship between what wins and what is used for breeding, is that the good breeders use the good dogs, and the good judges put up the good dogs. The relationship is not that people do what the judges tell them do. That has always bothered me, when someone tells us that everyone flocks to breed to the Select dogs, just because they went Select. It is not the cause and effect that it seems. What Fred said, that we the judges are judging to establish what to breed to, is something I do not subscribe to. As a judge, I never think about breeding while in the ring, and never want someone to take my results and use my opinion to do the planning for their litters. On the other hand, if they are as smart as me, (or as stupid) then they will probably breed to the same animals that I put up. Which it might be, depends on the person. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Evan _Asgard German Shepherds_ (http://www.asgardgsd.com/) http://www.asgardgsd.com/ Where Type Movement and Temperament come together ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================