Have the pedigrees available look to see if there was any white factored dogs in the background. It does not need to immediately surface but it will in time as I have been researching this for several years. Also was the white bitch really white? Theresa GSDCA Member scenecrest@xxxxxxxxx -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 8/1/14, Anne Utter <rautt75@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: I've seen blk/tan dogs that are faded too and no white coat was involved. I had one that was not quite the rich color that is demanded and there was no white in the background. On the other hand, I did breed a white bitch to a colored and got some gorgeous blk/tans with dark pigment. I can send you a picture privately. BTW, the breeding was done openly, not in secret - I did not own the sire. But I never bred any of the pups back into the colored lines either. Anne ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================