Your post is a perfect example of why we need to get away from majors and do this more the Canadian way...I read your post and it sounded like way more trouble than it should be worth...this handler won't get his fee, this cranky judge will lose his per dog fee, the steward gets bothered all day about..."is it or isn't it"...armbands passed back....geeesh...many will not agree( what else is new) but the "major game" should be put to rest as soon as possible ...I was diagnosed as having a "defiance disorder "...my question to my therapist at the time was...." so what's wrong with being defiant?".....lol....FB Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx wrote: If it is close in dogs, (and NOT a major in bitches), usually all of the owners/handlers are pestering the steward to see if the major held, and if it doesn't, even to the time the Open dogs are entering the ring and being checked in, it is perfectly OK to take off the armband, hand it back to the ring steward and say "we only needed the major". In fact, when this happens you'll usually see several of the handlers in Open do this. (Try NOT to be so obvious that the judge hears you, at the ABs some judges who charge a per dog fee get a little cranky w/ armbands being handed back in. If your handler knows that about a particular judge AND has a special they don't want dumped, they may go ahead and show the dog who only needs a major rather than risk a cranky judge dumping their special. Now, should you be charged a handling fee???? Whole other can of worms....) If the major breaks in dogs and there is a major in bitches (which may or may not hold, who knows at that point usually?), you'd show the dog, hoping to win and cross over. Specials come into play, but that rarely works. For instance, if it's close and breaks in dogs but you hope to beat the male specials... Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds In a message dated 3/24/2008 12:25:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cnnpmm2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: Are all exhibitors/handlers made aware of the actual count *before* anyone steps into the ring? If all dogs are in the ring and accounted for by the ring steward, but it looks like the major will not hold, is it okay to pull your dog at that point? (I'm talking about before the judge enters the ring.) **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================