[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: We need MORE Sarah's

  • From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <pkstoesser@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <cherlyngsd@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 17:03:26 -0700

Beautifully said Pam. Thank you. You are exactly 'spot on' with your
reminder that there is but one
German Shepherd Dog. The diversity of course is in OUR interests...but that
should NOT change
our right perceptions of our Breed Standard. Ideally a show dog should be
able to perform any normal
work expected of the GSD...and a working dog or IPO dog should be able to
compete in conformation.

We all disagree on many things on this List from diets to National
locations...but most of the time
everyone on this List is more than willing to share information and help
anyone that asks for help
or asks a serious question......including Sarah.
This began with a simple inquiry from a person that had a sable male pup he
thought would 'finish'
if shown...except his pasterns were down. This person had gone to the
breeder and inquired about
the lines and just wanted help in how to solve the pastern problem....and
'the List' responded
accordingly with several suggestions. Everyone wants to help a puppy
recover from this horrific
problem. No foul...no harm done as many responded as helpfully as they
could.
However...
when someone comes back with a blanket statement that puts all
"conformation people" ( US ) or
"conformation dogs" ( OURS ) in a big hat and pulls out problems and tells
us that we don't care
about any of these problems because we show in conformation .....well...you
can just expect some
negative reaction.
We ALL stay up nights worrying about some problem sooner or later........ALL
OF US!

Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com

On Behalf Of Pam Stoesser To: cherlyngsd@xxxxxxxxxxx;
Daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; edwinx@comcast.netCc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: We need MORE Sarah's

In general, we all have opinions and everyone (new or old) have a right to
theirs, even as we realize that some will be right and some will be wrong.
It's the discussions that lead us to reach out beyond our experience and
learn from the experiences of others.

However, I do believe that we also have the obligation to post and discuss
with respect for the other person's experiences and to not phrase our
discussions with accusatory language or words that come across as attacks.
Some of us communicate in full sentences even as our culture is moving
toward communications in short bursts of single words.

Short bursts are suited for factual information like "R U going to Sue's?".
This list sometimes uses those. But deeper conversations like how well our
dogs meet the breed standard require more thought and longer, thoughtful
sentences because the answer is now, and has always been after Max, "some do
and some don't". Those discussions are necessary between GSD folk and have
been for years because it's how we learn.

Without the Standard, there is a tendency to breed the dog for only one
purpose, whatever that might be so that a person gets a lighter, smaller dog
for one purpose or a dog that runs fast but doesn't gait for another
purpose. Both of those are wrong, just as much as breeding a dog who gaits
flat on it's hocks or whose back rumbles with every step. The GSD Standard
describes an efficient dog suitable for working long periods of time without
tiring, protective of the sheep and the shepherd and beautiful in motion
because of that efficiency. There SHOULD NOT BE a different standard for
the conformation dog, the working dog, or the performance dog.

If the people on this List can discuss differences respectfully and with an
intent to come closer to the breed standard, then is has a good purpose.
Otherwise, then each needs to consider whether continued participation is
worthwhile...

Just my opinion... Pam

From: Lyn Chernak <mailto:cherlyngsd@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 8:22 AM
To: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: We need MORE Sarah's

"Sarah" is one of many new and young fanciers of the breed. She like many
come to this list to learn and voice their opinion from what they know from
reading material available and seeing first hand at shows they attended. She
may be vocal with her opinions but so are others. We have all agreeded to
disagree when this started (back on AOL).

Instead of picking her apart with her comments concerning "down pasterns"
maybe the right thing to do is find out why or how this issue was so
prevalent that it caused a comment (and not the first time or first person).
Why have food formulas been posted here to help dogs/puppies with down
pasterns? Why have comments been made such as "show them in high grass and
not indoors" if there is no problem.

Have any of the issues that newbies question and make comparisons on become
so accepted in the American dogs that they are not seen as questionable?

New eyes and painful questions should always be taken into consideration or
at least heard with and open mind. To be followed with your own question
.... why do they ask that? What are they seeing that causes that question.
This applies not only to dogs, but to anything that is out there that has an
ability to change.

Lyn Chernak
_____

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:05:08 -0400
From: dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: Daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
CC: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: We need MORE Sarah's

I have read the post of Sarah and she came across saying that "American
Lines" had the pastern problems, she NEVER saw bad pasterns in the
German/Working lines. That kind of attitude is attacking and accusatory.
If you really want to learn then do so. I go to a lot of shows I don't see
American Show dogs having down pasterns. There may be a few that don't have
the greatest feet but there is no perfect dog, German, American or whatever.
Down pasterns in puppies is common and I can't believe german/working lines
don't have that in their puppies sometimes. There were some people who were
trying to educate her but she seemed like she had her mind made up. The
people who breed American Show lines breed the bad pasterns. ummm noooo.
Everyone has their opinion its how you express it that either irritates
people or not.
MYJOY SHEPHERDS
Joyce Willis

-----Original Message-----
From: Daphne Hereford <Daphne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: edwinx <edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: showgsd-l <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2015 7:57 am
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: We need MORE Sarah's
I agree with you 100% Ed. Too often some on this list just "attack" and that
is just plain not nice. If the club wants younger folks to be there when we
are all gone, then maybe they should be nicer to them and mentor them
without attacking them. Just my opinion of course, because some of those
same people seem to get some sense of joy out of attacking me.

Daphne Hereford
AKC Breeder of Merit
RIN TIN TIN Line Dogs
www.HollywoodDogs.com



From: showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:showgsd-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?] On Behalf Of edwinx@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:26 PM
To: freelist
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] We need MORE Sarah's

We talk about growing the club with new young members! Sarah is exactly what
we need! 30 years from now most of US won't be here, but Sarah will! New
folks on the list sometimes go through a "learning curve" most of us know
the spoken and unspoken protocols we navigate to communicate with complete
strangers so to speak! Sarah appears to be strong willed and opinionated and
that could be said about 95% of most of the active posters on this list!
Agree or disagree with her is not the point! We need to be somewhat gentle
with newer members of the list.. It's okay to slam old farts like me! If
we scare off all the new folks pretty soon we'll just have Me and Evan
posting all day telling everyone insane, trivial , and useless things! How
fun is that! We need to cut the new folks some slack! Even though Sarah is
a Patriot fan I'm willing to over look it! FB

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