Yeah well...I have been to trails, been to training, know some good trainers and some VERY bad. Known some very nice dogs sent back to Germany for their titles who were almost ruined. (No names). Seems this sport seems to attract more than its fair share of "quein es mas macho" types. And yes, there are nuts in any sport involved w/ animals, dogs, horses, you name it, I've seen it and then some. Just saying from my perspective (and I've given it a few shots), this particular venue attracts more than it's fair share. I'm just not convinced. Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit http://www.pinehillgsds.com/ In a message dated 2/7/2014 2:47:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rbuffdogs@xxxxxxxxx writes: Evan , I don't know of any dog of TRULY solid nerves don't need "desensitizing" to the stick. We have trained many dogs to the sleeve for both law enforcement , personal protection and Schutzhund, none needed "desensitizing" . The dogs working the sleeves aren't being "beaten' and they aren't being hurt (at least by any trainer that is worth a damn) . The stick is a pressure test to discern COURAGE, not to see how much pain a dog can endure. If you will watch some of the BSZS tapes you will see the dogs , many times never are contacted at all with the stick. It is rather waved over their heads, to see if they will hit and hold despite a "threat". It is not a perfect test, but good. It takes a lot of nerve to run down that field and go for a "bad guy" that is acting aggressively and waving a stick at you, lol. Most do pretty well, some come unglued. But desensitizing..no, not really, not the good ones. They enjoy the challenge! It is nothing more than a big doggie game for them. As far as "putting my will " on a dog, if some big goon comes at me, I sure as hell don't want my dog to head for the hills leaving me to fend for myself or my family..I EXPECT them to step up to the plate and to defend me with their lives if the situation is dire enough. Protection, solid , strong nerves and good character, all part of the breed. The sleeve training is just one way to hone that, and also to show it off. Kathy *"Victory...*Vires et honestas" On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 11:13 AM, <ELG440@xxxxxxx> wrote: > I do not do schutzhund work, not do I ever intend to. > > I can't believe making a dog used to getting hit by a stick is a good > thing. I know, we train them to find bombs and get blown up, but I don't > like > that either. I don't like having dolphins carry explosives either. > > To me, it is smart not to want to get hit by anything, and I never felt the > need to put my will on my dog, to get him to do something I want, and not > what is reasonable for any animal. > > > > Evan > > > > ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================