I 100% agree with you Kathy, a pup is either of sound temperament from the start or not. I listen to people make excuses why their dog has temperament issues using Abuse or not being socialized enough, the real case lies with genetics. The problem starts with the genetic makeup of the sire and dam where they pass on stable or unstable temperament. The unstable dogs should not be bred on in the first place and it would end there. So what happens is the puppy buyer gets the problem so if they can not deal with the temperament issues the dog ends up at the local shelter. So giving treats to dogs to make them accept strangers, etc. is not the answer not breeding the sire and dam is. Professional trainers can hide the temperament issues to some degree but if something uncertain happens the dog responds in a negative way for others to see. Years ago trainers did not use gimmicks or treats but today it is the going thing. Why dogs today are not bred to be of stable temperament in the first place, most believe the excuses that are made. If you need all these gimmicks and treats to make a dog behave you are headed in the wrong direction. All you need to do is look in a dog or pups eyes it tells he whole story of whether they are secure or not. Theresa -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 2/8/14, Rbuffdogs . <rbuffdogs@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Kappo was 8 weeks old so that "someone eles" would be us. But he and Quina (Quina who was never socialized and spent her whole LIFE until we got her in a kennel..period.) Then there is Nixie, our rescue from Serbia. She is the poster child for ABUSED, NEGLECTED, IN PAIN, BLIND, AND SHIPPED ALL OVER THE WORLD by a ruthless and money hungry dog dealer. She came to us, by God's Grace and the help of so many people , worldwide, trying to save her... The minute she could see after the surgery to save her remaining sight (about 20-30%, and spotty) she transformed into a dog with, I dare say IDEAL character/temperament, and STRONG nerves and TOUGH AS NAILS. Never socialized, wholly abused, and in pain all her life....but never socialized. Again truly sound is truly sound, solid is solid....socializing not required. Kathy On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 12:47 PM, <Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx> wrote: > How old were they when you got them? Maybe somebody else put the good > foundation on them. Not saying they aren't sound, just saying someone may > have given them a great start. > > The longer I am around dogs, the more importance I put on a really good > start. > > > *Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC*Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd > Champions > visit http://www.pinehillgsds.com/ > > In a message dated 2/8/2014 2:00:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > rbuffdogs@xxxxxxxxx writes: > > A truly sound dog with good nerves doesn't need socialization. Kappo is a > prime example. > We didn't "socialize" him, because he never needed it. Same with Quina, > Sound is sound, is sound. > Socializing is great if they need it...but with a dog of true "stands his > ground " character..it is > not necessary. Fun, but not necessary. > Kathy > > *"Victory...*Vires et honestas" > > > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 4:28 AM, <Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > > Lack of socialization. > > > > > *Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC* ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION: http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================