Just my opinion, but I do believe training dogs for the conformation ring is valuable, no matter what ring you are showing in - AB or specialty. We ALL train our dogs to a certain extent, based on what we do or do NOT do from the time they are puppies. How far we go seems to be the question. All of my dogs, show or not, have been trained to have their mouths examined. That is very basic, and every dog should be trained to let someone look at their teeth and take something out of their mouth. You can't do a good job on nails if the dog won't allow you to touch their feet. Standing STILL for exam is essential for the show ring AND the vet's office. A lot of folks who send their dogs with handlers do let the handler work with the dogs prior to their show career. If you use one handler exclusively that works because then the handler can train the dog to their way of presenting the dog to the judge. Lots of folks (those who watch the ring but are not judging) can be impressed by a dog tearing wildly around the ring -- but hard and fast does not equal good. Our standard calls for a flying trot -- not running around in fear of ghosts. (Please don't think I'm saying a fast dog is fearful - I'm using this as a point.) As someone who has occasionally had the need to take in my own dog, it's much better for me to HAVE a dog who knows that "turn left" means "don't crash into the ropes or try and run out of the ring" I had many years in obedience before I started showing in breed, and once I learned what speed my dog(s) look best at, I have given that speed a name (fast, slow, etc.) and used it for the conformation ring. Now, they know what MY change of pace means. Many judges want to see at least one pass on a LOOSE lead -- it's much easier to give it a name (command) and have the dog LEARN. Not even our best specialty judges can judge a dog that you are wearing on your back around the ring. I've seen a lot of judges who do give considerable latitude to puppies, wanting the experience to be pleasurable for the puppy. But with entries down from even five or ten years ago, many dogs do not even begin their show careers until they are in Am Bred or Open. By the time they are physically mature enough to compete for points, they ought to be able to perform properly in the ring. If that's the case, why wait until they are two years old before trying to get them to behave? It's entirely possible to teach your own dog to pull out in front of you even if YOU are showing them. I can't think of any handler that I know who wants to trip over a dog that crosses in front, can't corner, or stops dead upon seeing their owner ringside. I've also never seen any judge that is amused by an Open dog who pulls their handler off their feet in attempt to see "how much can I get away with." (I had a dog that DID do exactly that with a new handler; he was almost minored out already and I had someone brand new showing him, and the dog decided to test the handler. The dog stepped off the mat, rolled head over heels and finished sprawled in front of the judge, who was NOT impressed.) Again, I think the question is not "to train or not to train" but "how much training and who does it." Not everyone is capable of training their own dogs for the show ring, and if that is the case, then talk to your handler and see what they want. If you are new, then it becomes doubly important to speak to your handler and/or breeder, and let them help you. Also - remember there a lot of JUNIORS who would be happy to work with your dog -- and in order to retain amateur status, they cannot accept pay. These young stars, who will, in ten years, be some of the top GSD handlers in the country, need our help. Why not help them, and help yourself, by letting them work with your dog? Most juniors have a parent or mentor that IS a handler, and EVERYONE benefits -- you, your dog, and most importantly, we are securing the future of our breed. How many of us will be stepping into the ring ten or twenty years from now? And how many of our now top handlers will still be exhibiting in ten or twenty years? Boy did I turn the corner on that thread! From training to Juniors! Just trying to move fast enough to stay ahead of the flames - LOL! Kelly Busse Wolfheart German Shepherds ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 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