The owner of the entrant lists the sire & dam on the entry form and they are subsequently listed in the Fut/Mat catalog. I then credit that listed sire & dam with any points won by the entrant. The top sires/dams are then eligible for the presentation class as well as for the Red Book. When I work up the top 10 sires' or dams' pages in the Red Book, I retrieve the pedigree that was sent in with the Futurity nomination and figure out the grandparents & linebreeding etc. from that. If there was no pedigree furnished, then it is listed as "unavailable". I then send a proof to the owners and ask them to look their pages over and let me know of any mistakes, typos, omissions etc. Many times they supply the missing/corrected information if they have it. Liz _www.lealynn.com_ (http://www.lealynn.com/) GSDCA member since 1976 Signers of the Breeders Code AKC Breeder of Merit In a message dated 10/4/2011 2:41:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pcooke212@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: Then how can the bitch be used to tally points and be in the stud dog presentation class? ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================