One last point. If you say you feel that dog # 15 is equal to dog # 1why is that dog not in 2nd or 3rd place. HHUUUUMMMM, I wonder what criteria the judge used. JOHN Paul adds... Bingo John. That's a 5 Point Major up, across, or on the diaganol. Your reasoning is what I have been trying to impart over the last few weeks of discussion. The problem is...no one seems to see it although the reasoning is clear and concise. Selects are the ones competing for the "Brass Ring"...not watching the procedings from the sideline. Selects are in at the end... Why is it so difficult to for the fancy to buy another term that will give exceptional dogs the notiriety they deserve? I would think this would be an easy sell. The Intersex Judge could select far more animals based on the "really, really, good" description rather than the Select definition. I for one, see there would be more AOM's or whatever, adding to the competion at the National as more dogs will stand a chance of getting their due recognition. The Intersex Judge would not be hamstrung with a limit, and the Board would also...be offa da hook. Sure seems an easy choice to me... Paul ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================