Oh please, are people so elitist that new folks aren't welcome to learn? For goodness sake, there really is only ONE breed. Most people do have their dogs registered in the AKC as well, even if they do show in other venues. You know, this is one of the very reasons that new folks stay away from our shows anymore and partly a reason our entries are so far down because folks don't make welcome outsiders into this game. Just this last nationals, Sheree Moses approached Jim and I because she found a very nice lady that lived in the area and had a European and had asked folks some questions and she was totally SNUBBED by everyone she talked with. Sheree knows Jim and I own and co-own crosses and full blood German dogs so she went to the trouble to find us so we could talk w/ this woman. This was a very handsome, big black dog, not show quality but nonetheless a wonderful dog. This gal was interested in showing in AKC and just wanted some guidance and information. She's the type of person that if welcomed would probably purchase a nice dog and join local clubs. The post below illustrates a part of the problems we're having. Let's stop the reverse snobbism and welcome anyone interested in our game in, what are people afraid of? They won't preach, if they do they'll get admonished by the list police. There are folks that show SV and AKC and CKC and IKC, etc. etc. Jim and I do all of the above, should we not be part of this list as well? Again, aren't we here to learn above all? Don't we think we can learn from anyone else? Lighten up. Edie and Jim Hallmark German Shepherds 'The Best of Both Worlds' Top American And German Lines www.gsdhallmark.homestead.com/index.html<http://www.gsdhallmark.homesteadcom/index.html> ----- Original Message ----- From: PARAVELLI@xxxxxxx<mailto:PARAVELLI@xxxxxxx> To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 3:00 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: This is gonna get me in Trouble Boy, I know I'm going to stir things up with this post but here goes: After I read this application my first thought was "why is this person interested in joining the showlist?" Its pretty obvious by their biography they aren't into the AKC/CKC style of dogs and showing. There are members on this list with German line dogs who are interested in showing in the AKC venue and do so, thats fine. But, it sure looks like this person is actively involved with the SV style of showing, not a member of the GSDCA, but USA, SV, WDA (which I know is a part of the parent club). Its easy to say yes to all of the stipulations required to join, then once in try to promote their personal preferences. I didn't join this list to wade through all of the warring e-mails on the German vs American line threads, but to talk about the style of showing I prefer... AKC. I am one of the founding members of this list, coming over from the first list created that fell apart from bickering. I have been in Colorado, ACTIVELY showing and involved with the specialty shows our club (Rocky Mountain GSDC) has put on every year since I joined in 1990, including show chair several times. Not once have I seen this person (kennel) show in our shows or in the all breed shows that I have attended. They state that they have been involved in local, regional, national and soon to be world shows, but I don't think it is the AKC style. I see many applications from people with their first German Shepherd, that want to learn more about the breed and maybe even show their dog, and that is wonderful, I hope they enjoy the list and get bit by that great bug called "showing". But I just don't understand why someone who has chosen to show the SV style of dog, with strictly German/Import lines wants to join our list. Its really not being narrow minded or prejudiced, because there are a bunch of lists on the internet that consist of members involved with exactly that style of showing, along with working lists, obedience lists, even people who love their pets and aren't interested in showing. People, this list is about breeding and showing in the AKC/CKC venue. Period. Sorry guys, this is how I feel... join the list that has your best interest at heart, whatever that may be. I'm on the one that is mine. Sheri Chambers Paravel German Shepherds home to: CH Clayfield Murphy's Romance CH Brentaryl's Red River CH Paravel McKinley v Stuttgart At the rainbow bridge: Totana's Brick of Piper Hill, Marlin's Bacardi, Morganlied's Cantata "Kennel Name: Adel Haus German Shepherds name: Christi Lanckriet City: Julesburg State: CO clubs: USA, WDA, SV, DVG, FCI 2_sponsors: I do not know who all are members of this list.... Description of Dogs: I own both German working lines and=20 showlines.... We are home to the following=20 studs, World Universal Sieger V- Camp v.=20 Muhlteich SchH 3, FH 2, V-Rick dei Verdi Colli=20 SchH 3, and SG-2 Half v. Aalenbach ScH 3 Our females include SG-Xaviera v. Klovensteener=20 Forst SchH 3 (National Qualifying), G-Maya v.d.=20 Rabauken SchH 1 (in training), V-Xinti v.d.=20 Bildeiche SchH 3, V-Vessa v. Bad-Boll SchH 1, V- Wilma v. Waterloo SchH 1, V-Pitra v. Monchberg Biography: We are a family who is very active in all areas=20 of the GSD World, ranging from Working trial, to=20 the showring to 4-H Obedeince....and everything=20 in between. We have participated in Local,=20 Regional and National events and in 2005, we will=20 also participate on a world level. We love our=20 dogs, and we love everything that the GSD=20 represents. " ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx>. VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org<http://www.showgsd.org/> ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. 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