Without looking in the Rules Book I would say that this is an akc PROBLEM. I would say that the AKC would not approve of a judge taking a dog away from the handler. After all, THE AKC says things like " not holding the head if the dog is being measured." " It is not necessary to determine soundness by forcibly raising and dropping front or hindquarters or applying pressure 0n the hock." HERE IS THE PROBLEM ; IF you have any of these problem going on. Do 3 things immediately. - 1. Report the problem to the AKC Repts. 2. SEnd a letter to the AKC 3. STOP SHOWING UNDER THAT JUDGE THAT DAY. IF EVERYONE DID THE SAME THING, CHANGES WOULD TAKE PLACE. TALKING ABOUT A JUDGE DOES VERY LITTLE TO CHANGE ANYTHING. 20 LETTERS TO THE AKC REP AND THEN CC THOSE TO THE THE AKC. THAT SHOWD GET YOU SOME ACTION. - jOHN ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ----- Original Message ----- From: Rbuffdogs@xxxxxxx<mailto:Rbuffdogs@xxxxxxx> To: HyHope@xxxxxxx<mailto:HyHope@xxxxxxx> Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:03 PM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: The temperament test from Carmen Hi John, What does the PC or AKC say about a judge actually taking the lead away from the handler? Isn't the handler supposed to have control over his dog at ALL TIMES, and if a judge physically removes the leash from the handler's possession, then he/she has at that point lost control of said dog? I can't imagine why anyone would want to do it, or want to see a dog that would allow it? Inquiring minds... Take care Kathy