Paula, I have to disagree with some of what you have said here. First, AB1634 is not about animal cruelty. It is about taking away our rights, as citizens, to decide if and when to spay/neuter our dogs. And, it's not just about breeders. This Bill does not allow for furture generations of working dogs, law enforcement dogs, Guide dogs, and the list goes on. There are laws on the books to address the animal cruelty issues. In fact, LAPD has an Animal cruelty task force. I can't even begin to tell you the arrests they have made and the reasons. It would turn your stomach. And, even if that is your issue, how does animal cruelty or neglect effect the over-population of dogs in shelters? Two different things as I see it. And, to spay/neuter any animal before he/she even goes through teething is animal cruelty in my eyes.  And, if you think organizations like the Doris Day Foundation aren't extremists, think again. I recently tried to help a couple replace a GSD they had recently lost. They got her from the D.D. Foundation 13 yrs ago. They went back there, thinking they would find another good dog, based on their prior experience. They never even looked at the dogs. The were bombarded with political crap from the moment they walked in. They decided they no longer wanted to deal with these folks. Extremists? I respect your views on Animal Welfare. The vast majority of us want to see everyone's dogs live a happy, healthy life with tons of love. But, the Animal Rights folks just want to see our ownership of said animals controlled, with Government supervision. That is not acceptable to me. No, we shouldn't hate ALL groups.  We should do our homework on any group we choose to support. Like Fran said, we have all probably donated to an organization that turned out to go against what what we believe. I have. And, I had to have my Dad pull my Mom's charitable contribution (after she died) cuz I knew she would never have supported it had she known the true goals of this organization. That money is now being held in trust until the family Foundation can agree on a suitable animal charity. And that organization gets fuzzier every day. Is fuzzier a word, LOL!  My point is this. We all agree that Mandatory S/N of shelter dogs or rescues is a must. There are so many alternatives to be considered that Levine, with his tunnel vision, won't even consider. We don't need extreme laws to change things. We need to come up with a compromise that provides for pet retention rather than shelter over-population and does not punish responsible pet owners.  Respectfully, Laura Thomas      -----Original Message----- From: Paula Cooke <psharp212@xxxxxxx> To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sun, 27 May 2007 8:16 pm Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: The American Humane Association Peggy, it isn't that simple. There are people on this list that are against B1634 who are so abusive to, and negligent of, their own dogs that it is nough for me to agree with PETA on some issues!! Nothing is that black and hite. Paul wanted Hunte with us; most of the list didn't seem to see it is way. I can't say Betty White or Doris Day are dead right anymore that I can say hey are dead wrong. They certainly do not want an end to pet ownership; hey want humane treatment of, and care of, society's pets. Extreme views ave long been necessary in this country to make needed changes. Misinformation is not going to win this battle. None of us can read others inds, but, it is apparent that too many people think that we are wrong and e need to police our own, as I have been preaching for years, or others are oing to police us and now it just may be coming to that. We allow abusers n our midst; others won't and are showing their political clout. A few years back, a well-respected list member wrote that we shouldn't let ad news out in public, we (the AKC and the GSDCA) should take care of our wn! Well, look where that got the Catholic Church and look where that ttitude is getting us today!! I don't know the answer to all of this, but, hating EVERYTHING that some of hese groups stand for is just dead wrong. What a waste of energy. The AHA does more for human children than it does for animals. That is the ost important thing and they should never be denigrated for it. If our ttitude shows that we believe that ten of our dogs should eat better and leep warmer and more securely than one human child, then something is eadly wrong with us. Paula, 140 days and counting ----Original Message Follows---- ate: Sun, 27 May 2007 23:15:45 -0400 rom: Peggy <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx> ubject: The American Humane Association The best answer I can give you, Paula, is that the road to hell is paved ith good intentions. eople can SAY anything they want, and organizations can put out hatever material they think will get them the most support... evertheless, the American Humane Association is NOT really animal riendly...and it doesn't matter that the group claims o be interested in animal welfare. It is much more an ARista group han a welfare group. And, if you are tired of reading things you don't like, just wait ntil these groups have their way...and then you can read ovels...because there won't be much to talk about on dog lists. Peggy =========================================================================== OST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original uthor and of GSD Communication, Inc. 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