[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Stud Dog German change into American type
- From: Susan Madlung <stormygsd@xxxxxxx>
- To: GSDHALLMARK@xxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:27:05 -0800
I like Edie's explanations - I don't have a clue about German pedigrees, ( I
wouldn't know a Lasso from a lariat) but a good dog is a good dog is a good
dog regardless of it's country of origin. If a person does their research,
screens the dog as they typically would for any stud dog, selects their
breeding pair based on their standards , what difference does it all make?
Make your selections based on sidegait, earset, pigment, etc etc as you
normally would in your selections. If the goal is genuinely to produce the
best dogs, then taking the best from a variety of gene pools only makes
sense to me.
Regardless of the line, the country of origin.. we all think our own lines
are better than the next, so how does this discussion become any different?
JMHO
Sue Madlung - Shadowacre Reg'd German Shepherds
http://www.shadowacre.com/future.htm Updated Sept 7./04!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "EDEN HALL" <GSDHALLMARK@xxxxxxx>
To: <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:01 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Stud Dog German change into American type
> In addition to Evan's comments below, the German Shepherds are strictly
controlled by the 'guy on top'. German breeders adjust their breeding to
what the breed leader at the time feels is correct during their tenure.
Over the last few years, there was a leadership change and the German dogs'
backs began to level out, more rear angulation and better shoulders. These
are the dogs that some of us are going WOW over. Health, pigment, feet,
temperament and TYPE.
> Edie
>
> Hallmark German Shepherds
> 'The Best of Both Worlds'
> Top American And German Lines
>
www.gsdhallmark.homestead.com/index.html<http://www.gsdhallmark.homesteadcom
/index.html>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ELG440@xxxxxxx<mailto:ELG440@xxxxxxx>
> To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:16 AM
> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Stud Dog German change into American type
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/15/04 9:34:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> Cecifranco2@xxxxxxx<mailto:Cecifranco2@xxxxxxx> writes:
> Perhaps I'm making a silly question, but I do own German V rated show
and
> working DDR lines also and American lines as well, I personally love
them
> all!!!!I wonder if somebody can tell me how all of these changes started
> taking
> place in the conformation of the German Shepherd from the German type
to the
> American type. Since we all knoe the Grman Shepherd was first imported
to
> the USA
> from Germany, how did this change started ocurring and how did the
breeders
> started deciding that the AMerican type they were breeding in those
times it
> was
> more correct or incorrect..this is opinions, but how this change
started
> happening?
>
>
>
>
> You will get a lot of responses, but since I remember much of the
change
> let me give you my thinking. At or near the end of World War two, German
> breeders wanted to get their best stock out of the country to avoid it
being used
> for the war effort. There was a strong action by Hitler to take over the
VA,
> and as a matter of fact at one point he did so.
>
> We received here in America great German type and good dogs. Then, when
the
> war ended, it went in the complete opposite direction. The SV started to
have
> a very closed registry and would not allow any German dogs to be bred
outside
> the SV and didn't want them sold outside the county. Then the Martins
took
> over the SV, and started to put up their own style of dogs at the SV
show, and
> to demand the breed wardens and judges limit type and litters.
>
> Dogs in Germany were kept there, and some of the less desirable stuff
was
> sod and shipped to America. Some American breeders were bringing in dogs
from
> Germany just because they were from Germany, and some breeders were
using them
> for the same reason. This went on for so long that in Germany, German
lines
> got locked into their style, while the American lines evolved, and were
> seldom bred back to German dogs, and most breeders realized that the
German
> breeders were not sending the best stock to America, and so they bred
mostly to the
> lines now developed in this country.
>
> The German style developed a type of dog, and deviation from the type
was
> discouraged. This locked in some great elements, and some not so great.
All this
> time, some Americans were bringing in less quality German stock and
using it
> in the lines, to expected bad results. The American lines were bred for
the
> shows and what the breeders wanted, with no strong central control, but
an
> active parent club and a knowing group of judges and breeders.
>
> While I was on the Board of Directors of the German Shepherd Dog Club of
> America, the SV wrote to us and said unless we used their standard, we
would no
> longer be allowed to call our breed German shepherds. Our response was
direct,
> and we considered if this did come to pass calling them Schufferhunds.
The
> Martins died, and we are in a waiting pattern to see what demands they
might
> want to put on us next.
>
> The Germans went to a harder working dog with a higher prey drive, and
we
> went to a softer easier dog to live with and elegance in type and
movement. We
> have no more ability to bring in the German factors than they do to
breed
> out with American dogs to gain our movement and style. However, the
GSDCA
> allows breeding into other lines, the SV does not.
>
> I hope that does answer your question. It is a matter of national pride,
> ego, and control. It probably will stay that way, and so there will
always be a
> difference. America does not do well with demands, and Germany always
seems
> to want a strong leader to control.
>
> It is foolish to claim the German style or the American style is better.
> They serve different purposes, and both have qualities and problems.
Every now
> and then someone does breed the two lines together, and now and then
there
> are some great puppies. Perhaps in the future there will be but one
style, but
> I doubt that will happen.
>
> Not that there is anything wrong with that.
>
>
> Evan
> _Asgard German Shepherds_
(http://www.asgardgsd.com/<http://www.asgardgsd.com/>)
> http://www.asgardgsd.com/<http://www.asgardgsd.com/>
> Where Type Movement and Temperament come together
>
>
>
>
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> POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS
of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author
AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
>
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POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
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