[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Standard backlines....
- From: Terry Cochran <fairway97045@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: Gsdman2@xxxxxxx, showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 11:58:45 -0800 (PST)
My bet is that the German will correct their backs faster than we will be
breeding dogs that will earn a level 3 working title.
https://www.rightdog.com/06NASSp291.htm
We take our breeding programs very personally, they seem to go at things
differently. If you show the fault it will not win, if you continue to put up
the fault you will not judge. A bit extreme but it does seem to be working.
Here is a link to one of the many pages of pictures I took at the 2006 NASS
https://www.rightdog.com/06NASS1218B2.htm
Yes there were banana backs there but there were also some Very Nice dogs
that really could move if shown in the AKC ring they would win.
The thing that I did notice is how different the rears really are. They have
a shorter lower leg with a longer hock. They have really nice bone and are
standard in size. No huge tall males. Females are so feminine!!!!! Male so
masculine
I can't wait to see what the German bred dogs will look like in another 5
years.
The truth is more people are doing preformance events then they are showing
in conformation. Why??? Becasue we have set a style of showing that the average
person can not compete in. In performance it is them and their dog working as a
team. It brings out many of the things in both the person and the dog that
attracted them to the bred in the first place.
I have been asked Why don't the Schutzhund folks use good American lines in
their breeding programs. My answer is always the same. Why don't American
breeders use good German lines to improve front reach. The answer is there are
good German dogs with great front reach and American bred dogs that would do
the Schutzhund work. The problem is we just don't know where to go to find what
we seek in each others dogs.
I outcross that is what I have done for several years with some success.
Right now I have a really high drive female that is going to be a herding fool
She is Ch Schatten's Showtime V Fairway She is a BIS -BISS Fairway's Tee Time
Bodega daughter by GV Bungee. http://www.fairwayshepherds.com/tia.htm I have a
male that is really doing well in herding was very slow to mature has a very
happy upbeat temperament and is a working fool. He is sired by Gucci the male
that our Pres Lew took on at the national. Gucci is a very good working dog
with a great temperament. Here is Gordy
http://www.fairwayshepherds.com/Gordy.htm
So what am I going to get when I bred these dogs. Puppies that I will be
proud to put the Fairway name on. The rest is up to the breeding gods :0)
Maybe they will be AKC show dogs, maybe not. I bet they will herd sheep :0)
Terry
Gsdman2@xxxxxxx wrote:
In a message dated 12/5/2006 12:23:54 PM Central Standard Time,
marhaven@xxxxxxx writes:
Personally I hate to see a three piece topline with the three different
angles!
I will never be convinced me that the "banana back"....or "carp back" or
"roach back" we see
in the German bred dogs is what the Standard calls for either.....nor is
the 3 angle topline this
wording describes. This is the part where interpretation comes into play
I guess.....
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm only reading the latest of this discussion, so I have no idea who wrote
the quote above. I completely agree with the part about the roached back. In
fact, I have no idea how a general public could see all of the many breeds of
dogs, then look at a roached back and not think "crippled." It did not become
popular in Germany, or anywhere else, because it in any way implied
correctness. It became popular in Germany because the Martins were in charge
for too
many years, and that's what their dogs produced. The one thing the roached
back does shine a light on, is the importance of adhering too the standard.
With that in mind, I question and disagree with the part of the quote that
actually appears to condemn a quote from the standard as being incorrect. It is
not possible for the standard to be incorrect, especially in a part that is
obviously detailed in its description. The standard correctly describes the
wither and the back as two separate parts, because they are two separate parts,
just as the croup is a separate part. The wither should naturally be higher
than, and sloping into a level back. Why? Because that is exactly what the
standard says! How does anyone write that part off to interpretation without
everyone else saying ... HUH?
There should not be a break in topline at that point, or at any other point.
The standard makes that clear under "General Appearance" with the statement
... "presents an outline of smooth curves rather than angles." However,
nowhere in the standard does it say that the point of the wither to the
beginning of
the croup should be a straight line. Likewise, nowhere in the standard does
it imply that the back should be set at an angle, either standing or in
motion. The standard does not specifically fault a back that is higher in
front, but
it does ask for a level back. Extreme topline is something we devised on our
own, merely because we think it looks good, exactly as the Martins apparently
did for their roached backs.
The overall topline our dogs should have, comes from a combination of the
higher wither, the level back, and the long sloping croup. Those parts should
all
flow together with the smooth curves that the standard asks for. That
combination leaves the dog higher at the wither than at the hip, which is a
correct
topline both standing and in motion. The back should be level to allow
forward drive during transmission rear to front.
All of this might not be popular in these days of extreme topline, but it is
fact that is backed up by the standard ... not by the "interpretation" excuse
that we seem to have learned to rely on.
Tom Langlitz
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