I so agree with this post. I prefer smaller bitches myself but I do have a very large bitch with tremendous sidegait that I held on to for just that reason. Her size hurt her in the futurity. How do I know? The judge mentioned it in her critique. Given the quality of the competion I'm not suggesting she should have been placed higher but I do hope that her size alone was not what kept her from winning her class, particularly when there are serious faults mentioned in the Standard the some judges admittedly do not have a problem with (ie missing teeth). Cindy cinosamgsd.com Carolyn <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I might add to Gary's post that the sire of that small male was one of the Breed's bigger Grand Victors's at 28 inches....and he produced a "big" son who was twice Select at 28 inches and BOTH were very athletic and extremely agile with power ....and never missed a beat while changing speeds, twisting and turning and stopping while herding and both gained their herding titles easily......and both are ROM's as is the smaller male mentioned. Neither had a problem breeding smaller bitches and were never considered clumsy, Goliath, or Gigantic or bordering on Great Dane size. The son and grandson of both is an extremely large male and was Highest Scoring Champion in herding at the National this year.........he excels at it. We now have yet another large young male..........not throwing him away either......... Someone mentioned SUKEES MANNIX and he was probably one of our larger Grand Victors and he will long be in MY memory as one of our biggest and best. This last years Grand Victor IMO is one of our biggest and best. A 'problem' for the Breed........I sure don't think so. With a breed that is considered to be struggling with a few really serious issues I can't see how the "checks and balances" of an occasional smaller dog or larger dog will EVER be the serious problem we deal with. To worry about staying right within 24 inches to 26 inches to me is a serious waste of time. I would relish the day that THAT was "THE" problem to worry about. At this last National we had a judge that put up a wide variation of sizes in both sexes and that is as it should be. Our best is usually within a wide variety of sizes. When we get out the wicket and worry about the "cookie cutter" of size so as to have no variation from the 24 to 26 inches, our Breed will pay a much larger price than we do with the ebb and flow of our great large, med, and small dogs. To fault the best dog there for it....on either side of the wicket is a mistake IMO> I remember EXTREMELY large males ever since we got involved in the Breed in the 60's and occasionally an awesome male that was undersized. They won on their side gait and other wonderful characteristics and thank goodness we didn't have judges bringing out the wicket to penalize them for that one issue on either side of the inch................ Take the time to go through a check list in your own memories and remember the awesome BIG dogs and MEDIUM dogs and SMALL dogs that have had been some of our VERY BEST. Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.Marhaven.com ----- Original Message ----- From: gsd0110@xxxxxxx To: irrenhaus4@xxxxxxxxxxx Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:01 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Size Not so many years ago there was a dog in CA that was shown more than enough to finish.... he was also on the short side even though he had substancial bone....and he had a tough time out there in the West... He came out East... finished in just a FEW shows...? sired a BIG ?WD? (who went Select) and went Select himself at the same?National.... His son ?went on to be 4 X? (COUNT 'EM 4X) GV.... and sired yet another recent GV....Gary Lewis -----Original Message----- From: Doris E To: showlist Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Size More than a few years ago, there was a California dog named Riesenblut's Valor. He was not a large male. He was very masculine, and he could move.I remember it taking him quite a while to finish. He did, in spite of his size. I, for one, was pleased to see him get his championship. However, I prefer a large male. Doris E ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ Cindy www.cinosamgsd.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================