There is such a thing called "form and function"..I will used humans as an example. A gymnast tends to be smaller in stature, when I say smaller, I do not mean the men are effeminate. A basketball player is usually tall..how do you think the gymnast would fair on the basketball court? The basketball player as a gymnast? Do you think that a gymnast that is muscular is less masculine than the basketball player because the basketball player is taller?Since humans generally know their limitations, most gymnasts recognize they lack the physical attributes needed to play basketball effectively, on the flip side, most basketball players know that their height impedes them from tackling complicated gymnastics feats.Naturally not everyone that is tall is gifted at basketball, and not everyone that is shorter is a gymnast, so the talent has to be there as well, but you get my point. .Dogs were bred for a purpose, again, form and function. As I looked in my AKC standard book, I reviewed the desired heights for all the dogs in this group. Only the Old English has an open ended height.In Bouviers, the ideal height is the median height. There are no giant breeds in the herding group, could form and function be the reason? Perhaps if some feel we need to modify the standard to fit our desire for a larger dog, then perhaps we need to also consider switching our breed to the working group as well. Keep in mind, I like the standard the way it is. I understand that masculinity is not defined by height, but by other characteristics. This thread originated by my observation that a correct size bitch was falling under scrutiny because she was the correct size and not oversized, to the point where there was a question as to whether she was undersized, for our breed. Again, my point was, SOME penalize what is desired as incorrect, because they have incorrect! Christine hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Steve and Christine Grainger WWW.HICKORYHILLGSD.COM > [Original Message] > From: ANN SCHULTZ <edangsd@xxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <bedkar@xxxxx>; <hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Emilie <windvane@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <elsyd1@xxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Date: 3/10/2008 10:09:20 PM > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Size. > > Size doesn't always affect agility, the way they are put together does. I have a 27 inch bitch that has more substance then most males and she can turn on a dime, is very fluid in movement and totally coordinated. I have seen dogs within the standard sizewise that are total klutz's. I think that bigger dogs are hard to beat, because they are more impressive. I have also found bigger bitches do better as well. I remember getting beat by a bitch that outstrided my within the standard bitch easily. Her legs were twice as long. Ann > Kay Reamensnyder Betty Doerpinghaus <bedkar@xxxxx> wrote: The largest breed is the Irish Wolfhound......which should be, > by standard, a minium of 32 inches. > The Great Dane starts at 30 inches, as does the Scottish > Deerhound. These are not dogs known for their agility. > There is a sound reason for limiting size.....agility! > > Kay Reamensnyder and Betty DoerpinghausHome of Bedkar German shepherdsbedkar@xxxxx> From: hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: windvane@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Elsyd1@xxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Size. > Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:34:57 -0500> > Not trying to put anyone on the spot, but just so we are all on the same> page..describe a "big" dog to me?I have seen tall dogs that weren't> masculine, I have seen shorter dogs that were very masculine. Christine> > hckryhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Steve and Christine Grainger> WWW.HICKORYHILLGSD.COM> > > > [Original Message]> > From: Emilie > > To: ; > > Date: 3/10/2008 8:06:18 PM> > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Size. > >> > I'm with you. we have border terriers for small dogs!LOL> > Emilie> > -- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 5:04 PM> > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Size.> >> >> >> > > I like a big dog. Syd> >> >> > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &> > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)> >> >> >> ============================================================================ > > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the> original > > author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any > > kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND> of > > the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.> >> > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY > > MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS > > PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS> EXPRESSLY > > FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL> BE > > PROSECUTED.> >> > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx> >> > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.sho > wgsd.org> >> ============================================================================ > >> >> > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.4/1310 - Release Date: 3/4/2008 > > 8:35 AM> >> >> >> ============================================================================ > > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the> original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS> of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author > AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > >> > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY> MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS> PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY> FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE> PROSECUTED. > >> > For assistance, please contact > the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx> >> > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org> >> ============================================================================ > > > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org> ========================================== > ================================== > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org > ============================================================================ > > > > Ann Home of Sel Ex # 6 Ch Maxwell, Sel Ex Ch Gilley and #1 Dam Muggles - owner/breeder of 64 champions and 19 ROMs > > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org > ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================