I have seen puppies set up that looked as if they had enough rear, but in motion they seem to loose it, just a bit of tension on the lead can make a difference..I have also observed that when youngsters come up in the rear, it can affect, not only the shoulder, but the back also. I believe there was also someone who wrote in another post about dogs "settling." I agree. I have seen some youngsters get straight looking in the front, including the pasterns and then in a few months the pastern angle returns, the shoulder seems to settle. Rears in our lines also seem to "settle:" with age. Our dogs tend to get more curvaceous when they hit about 3 or so. I don't evaluate shoulders at birth as I find body parts irrelavant.However if doing this suits you that is fine too! For me, everything has to co-ordinate together. I like a front that is outreaching and elastic, the rear powerful and driving and the back strong and firm for so that the power from the rear doesn't get lost in the transmission and a dog that is athletic..Maybe not every dog I have shown is like this..but it is what I like. No dog is perfect and some dogs compensate in various ways for their short comings.A really athletic dog can make himself look better and often deceives the fancy. A dog that is not as athletic or animated can make himself look worse. Conditioning also plays a part in how the animal uses itself. In this months Gazette a writer observes that a great dog in poor condition may never meet it true worth, on the flip side a very average dog with great conditioning, grooming and training may far exceed its true value to the breed!!! A dog can be blessed with raw structure, but it is up to you to bring out the best.Now, what I am about to say will surely provoke the ire of some(if not many, LOL). Currently, we have quite a few pretty very animated dogs in excellent condition and well groomed and trained. Because they are "goers" this seems to excite the fancy.I have read some posts from those who state" why aren't we rewarding long striding dogs?or where have they gone, we are loosing our motion? I read this, then I observe how they have been breeding..and I have to wonder why anyone would be perplexed as to where the movement has gone. Sometimes one need look no further than their own back yard to find the answers to such questions! Bottom line, fronts are hard to get..harder to maintain. Christine > > > > > > ============================================================================ > > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the > > original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or > > FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the > > original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY > > MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS > > PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY > > FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL > > BE PROSECUTED. > > > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org > > ============================================================================ > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > > ============================================================================ > > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the > > original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or > > FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the > > original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY > > MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS > > PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY > > FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL > > BE PROSECUTED. > > > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org > > ============================================================================ > > > > > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org > ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================