Hey Fred, folks on the line, Chuck is NOT misunderstanding anything. I have been known as a shoulder nut for 30 years..I understand the anatomy of the shoulder. For those of you taking offense to what I say, I dare you to go into your back yards and find me a 45 degree lay back shoulder blade.Yes you may find them but they are just the result of your dream..not measured with a measuring device to give you accuracy. I have devised a compas device with extended arms to follow the spine of the scapula and the vertical leg...My readings at most, on a few dogs, were 35 degrees...Look at the X-ray movies...they dont lie..a picture is worth a thousand words from the ?????. Chuck ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================