Good point, but I think "born" swimmers (which I have never seen), are somehow positioned in the womb with pressure on their chests. There seems to be some empirical evidence that swimmers appear more often in small litters. I think these pups are usually larger, and may have a somewhat unusual position in the womb, which possible causes them to be born as swimmers. . Syd In a message dated 5/31/2007 7:21:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, EKOLAN1@xxxxxxx writes: I am sure that is also a cause for swimmers. I have done some experimenting I have a dog who has a litter sister who was a swimmer. He sired 6 litters no swimmers. Then I made a breeding with him and there were 2 swimmers out of 4 puppies. I didn't catch it early when I did at 2 weeks I discussed it with friends and at least half of them said exactly what you said the other half thought it was hereditary. So I repeated the litter. Three puppies in this litter caught them coming out they were born with flat chests. Two of the three were flat before they hit the ground. He has sired litters since with no swimmers. But bred to one bitch 2 times produced 4 out of 7 puppies that were born swimmers. I would suspect it is a recessive. I am not suggesting that normal puppies from litters that have swimmers in it not be used for breeding. But I think to use a corrected swimmer for breeding will increase the chances of swimmers. Just my opinion but not without foundation. Fred Migliore SYD MAILBERG _WWW.KINGSWOODGERMANSHEPHERDS.HOMESTEAD.COM_ (http://www.kingswoodgermanshepherds.homestead.com/) "A dog is a dog except when he is facing you. Then he is Mr. Dog." - Haitian Farmer ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================