Theresa, there is a really simple solution for those dogs that don't approach the standard when there are so few in the classes . Withhold the ribbons. I have heard, (so probably true <G>) that AKC frowns upon withholding ribbons, but then we get into a whole different level of discussion. Stormy On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:30 PM, Theresa-GSD Stolz-Scenecrest Farm <scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: On Sun, 1/27/13, Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Can't argue that point...<G>....but to solve it do you think we should have a class for sound temperament and a class for insecure dogs that barely stand? *** Not at all they should never place but do see this happen.*** Should we have a class for long backs..( because they CAN be shown in regular classes with correct length ) ..and a class for normal length with nice depth? *** No, This is my point they do place since there are only a few in the GSD's class.*** Masculine head class vs. lacking in masculinity class? Isn't that WHAT the Standard is about? To abide by...to sort out our litters and to utilize when we enter a show and let the judge honestly and judiciously sort them out according to the Standard? *Yes, but with so few of GSD's in a class how does the judge avoid not placing them?* Of course there is no perfect dog....you can always find a fault...but to actually break it down into classes is just taking up time at a show. That is the judge's job. ( much like our standard....not all do it well.. ) <G> ***No there is no such thing as a perfect dog, but unless more people get out and show their GSD's the incorrect ones will continue to win.*** I see MAINLY conformation GSD's herding..and most do it very well. Those that do not have the strength of back and some nice angulation do tire ..and some tire out mentally as well. Neither is correct, but making extra classes is just making extra excuses. The most important thing in competing in Conformation is to spend as much time faulting our own lines and dogs as we do faulting others.... then we do well. ***I agree!!!!*** Theresa ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================