[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Rights and wrongs...? and in between
- From: MORGAN LEWIS <shadowland22000@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx" <scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx>, "marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, 'Penny & Bill' <Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 13:31:13 -0700 (PDT)
We have always had some health concerns, but now EPI, Cancer, PF have really
become major problems. I honestly would like the GSDCA to make the TLI test
available on the OFA (CHIC)SITE. TAMU has agreed and OFA has agreed, but the
Board must agree that this is an effective test for the determination of EPI.
This test could prevent 100's or 1000's of dogs and owners from going through
the heartbreak of this disease. Unfortunately as with many of our diseases - DM
and Cancer) we only see the disease after our dogs get older (although we are
seeing some very young dogs). Also a point why are so many feeding Probiotics
on a regular basis (You are hiding a possible serious condition).
Morgan Lewis, RPh.
Member GSDCA
President Last Hope of Georgia 501c3
"So Much to Do, So Little Time"
________________________________
From: Theresa-GSD Stolz-Scenecrest Farm <scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "shadowland22000@xxxxxxxxx" <shadowland22000@xxxxxxxxx>;
"marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 'Penny & Bill'
<Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:20 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Rights and wrongs...? and in between
Do have a question through to this...
"And like has already been pointed out - the environment. insecticides, flea
killers, tick killers, heart worm killers, herbicides, hormones, vaccines. "
Why before all of this did we have all the health issues years ago but same
disease just different names? As Germany did not use what the USA might have
still it appeared there and here too.
"Temperament IS A very big element as are all the genetic issues. BUT until we
can determine genetically which genes are actually causing certain health
problems, we are stuck with the knowledge of the pedigree, and comments from
other owners and breeders. Those comments may be taken with a shot of JACK
DANIELS. We do know that certain lines are dominant for certain health issues,
but no one has of yet to prove it genetically.(to the best of my knowledge).
That said, IT IS NOT just what your dog carries - it is what the entire litter
carries or several litters of the same breeding. We simply do not have a data
base for this, nor the health records of all the show or pets we produce. "
Until breeders and owners let others know what their GSD experiences are we
still will never know. We need to be honest so breeders
and owners can feel comfortable as well need to respect that person and not
condemn them or pass rumors on about their GSD's.
There is no shame to admit to a mistake as no one is perfect or is there a
perfect GSD but to help another from experiencing a heartache
in the future will always be the right thing to do.
Theresa
________________________________
From: MORGAN LEWIS <shadowland22000@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 'Penny & Bill'
<Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx" <scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx>;
"showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:53 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Rights and wrongs...? and in between
Temperament IS A very big element as are all the genetic issues. BUT until we
can determine genetically which genes are actually causing certain health
problems, we are stuck with the knowledge of the pedigree, and comments from
other owners and breeders. Those comments may be taken with a shot of JACK
DANIELS. We do know that certain lines are dominant for certain health issues,
but no one has of yet to prove it genetically.(to the best of my knowledge).
That said, IT IS NOT just what your dog carries - it is what the entire litter
carries or several litters of the same breeding. We simply do not have a data
base for this, nor the health records of all the show or pets we produce.
And like has already been pointed out - the environment. insecticides, flea
killers, tick killers, heart worm killers, herbicides, hormones, vaccines.
When and if we ever determine what genes cause a certain disease such as DM,
what will be the end result by removing those genes. Playing God is a
dangerous game.
In closing, breed the healthiest, soundest dogs available that meet the GSD
Standard, what ever that is. Every dog we produce should meet the highest
standards of the breed whether for Show, Work or Play. Your poorest pup in the
litter should match the best, healthiest pup in the litter
Morgan Lewis, RPh.
Member GSDCA
President Last Hope of Georgia 501c3
"So Much to Do, So Little Time"
________________________________
From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: 'Penny & Bill' <Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx;
showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 2:10 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Rights and wrongs...? and in between
You can go as far back as you want. Bottom line...you need to know
what issues...good and bad YOUR current dog carries!! They don't ALL
carry the problems of their ancestors...and some carry things you have
never had before. Some dogs just should not be in a gene pool .....
Also...like Mike and Ed....I would like someone to explain to me how
we can avoid the dogs and lines from these dogs that are the very
foundation of our Breed??? Maybe I AM ignorant!! <G>
I give Theresa credit though. SHE is the FIRST one to bring up the
'other' elephant in the room. INCORRECT TEMPERAMENT in this Breed.
Same thing..it stems from the very foundation of our Breed.
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com
From: Penny & Bill [mailto:Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
To: scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx; marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; ducksavsfan@xxxxxxxxx;
showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Re: Rights and Wrong and in between
Very intelligent post, Theresa. The problem today (and as far back as I can
remember) is that many people do not look far enough BACK in their pedigrees
to know what dogs/problems have been doubled/tripled upon. Unless we
educate ourselves to understand what is there (and I mean 10-15 generations
back) we will be repeating mistakes, unknowingly. But it is our business to
KNOW! How can we educate others if WE are ignorant? Obviously we cannot.
Penny in NC
The Farm Dog Forever
Unless your GSDÂ you decide to breed does not carry the below GSD's in
their pedigree there is no way to avoid the past as it will always repeat
itself.
As we all know these
dogs are repeated numerous times in our GSD's pedigree. It has nothing to
do with show dogs as every living GSD goes back to the beginning of the breed
if there were no other breeds involved along the line. It has everything to do
with health and sound temperament which you need to avoid doubling-tripling up
of
GSD's that carried it on through their genes to present time.
Even if you think you outcross does not make a difference since you are
still linebreeding if these GSD's are in the background several times.
Â
In all these pedigrees I have with dogs passing away to Hemangiosarcoma the
below dogs are in their pedigrees over and over again. The males were also
noted by
others of having dogs with other cancers, EPI, Digestive-Bloat problems,
Cryptorchidism.
Several of the below GSDs had fear aggression and unstable temperament
issues too.
Rosel vom Osnabrücker Land
Axel von der Deininghauser Heide
Utz vom Haus Schütting
Hussan vom Haus Schütting
Klodo vom Boxberg
Erich von Grafenwerth
Alex vom Westfalenheim
Theresa________________________________
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POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
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