[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Rights and Wrong and in between

  • From: Theresa-GSD Stolz-Scenecrest Farm <scenecrest.geo@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "ducksavsfan@xxxxxxxxx" <ducksavsfan@xxxxxxxxx>, "showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 07:33:15 -0700 (PDT)

Unless your GSD  you decide to breed does not carry the below GSD's in their 
pedigree
there is no way to avoid the past as it will always repeat itself.  As we all 
know these
dogs are repeated numerous times in our GSD's pedigree.  It has nothing to do
with show dogs as every living GSD goes back to the beginning of the breed if
there were no other breeds involved along the line. It has everything to do 
with health
and sound temperament which you need to avoid doubling-tripling up of GSD's 
that carried it on 
through their genes to present time. Even if you think you outcross does not 
make a difference since you are
still linebreeding if these GSD's are in the background several times.
 
In all these pedigrees I have with dogs passing away to Hemangiosarcoma the 
below dogs
are in their pedigrees over and over again. The males were also noted by others 
of
having dogs with other cancers, EPI, Digestive-Bloat problems, Cryptorchidism.
Several of the below GSD’s had fear aggression and unstable temperament 
issues too.
Rosel vom Osnabrücker Land
Axel von der Deininghauser Heide
Utz vom Haus Schütting
Hussan vom Haus Schütting
Klodo vom Boxberg
Erich von Grafenwerth
Alex vom Westfalenheim
 

________________________________
 From: Carolyn Martello <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 
We will definitely inbreed occasionally and line breed a lot.  That does not

mean we do it with no thought and no concern for happy healthy puppies! 
When we decide on a line breeding or close breeding we are not burying our 
heads in sand..though I do like to sit on a sandy beach....<G>
ALSO....
*.  WE have gotten more problems from outcrossing than line breeding.
*.  Line breeding OR inbreeding does NOT cause 'problem' genes to develop.
    IF you are inbreeding and the problem is not there..inbreeding cannot
    CAUSE the problem!   You won't 'create' a problem with an inbreeding.  
    The problem has to already be there.
*.  You can do a total outcross breeding and still both parents can carry 
    the problem gene coming down from different lines or dogs.  
    The gene is STILL THERE.
*.  You can look at a pedigree..know there is a problem on one side because
of 
    a particular dog...breed to an outcross because THAT dog or line is not
there
    and STILL get the problem through ANOTHER dog in the outcross pedigree
that 
    carries the same problem.  ONE dog or ONE line is never the only
carrier!!  
    You are only fooling yourself to think an outcross will solve it.   It
often 
    just means "YOU don't know about it".....<G>
*.  ALL lines carry problems.  You can look at a pedigree and see a specific

    problem known to be carried by one of the relatives...it does NOT mean
your 
    Dam or Sire IS a CARRIER.  You DO need to find that out if you are going
to 
    use them for breeding.
*.  Please don't tell me that ONLY outcross litters are the only healthy
pups 
    going into homes or being used for breeding.

carolyn  marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.marhaven.com
                *************************************************
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Christina Klahn

Another interesting question.  How many out there have x-rayed hips after
the initial OFAs at 2?  I know several who have and the hips show
deterioration as the dogs ages.  The author doesn't say bad hips, he 
says
osteoarthritis.  That's not the same in my book as hip displasia or "bad
hips".  Also, I will stand on this one that he has a point on the amount of
inbreeding in some breeds (including our own) that can only cause issues
down the road because of the cut down gene pool  People complain about
"throwing the baby out with the bath water" because they tested or produced
"x" disease because it cuts down the gene pool.  Isn't inbreeding, line
breeding and heavily breeding on the popular sire of the day doing the same
thing, especially when the popular sire of the day is related to the past
sire of the day and then some?  Yes, you can show your issues very quickly
doing a inbred or line bred litter, but is it worth it to send these dogs
out
to the unsuspecting public that owns 80% if not more are in pet homes? 
This book has also opened my eyes to many things, one of them is the
serious dangers inherent in only breeding for looks as opposed to the whole
package.  Some people need to pull their heads out of the sand and stop
being defensive and start breeding for the complete GSD.  Isn't that why we
love this breed?  I guarantee that most people won't only point to looks as
to why they love GSDs.  Just my two cents.
Tina Klahn  
Illusion GSDs
ducksavsfan@xxxxxxxxx
              
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