Al--I really think you are wrong on the 30 inch height--that's the size of a great Dane. I think it was more like 27 inches. When you breed& judge GSDs for many years ,you can assess their height by where the whither lines up on your leg( And I judge Great Danes also). I had the privilege of putting them both up when I did Intersex at Philly in1983. Behind Mannix, I had Connie Beckhardt's Troll dog and Verna Kubic's Kane dog( Select2&3) who went on the next two years to each go GV. I'm very much a movement judge,& all three did not appear " oversized ".I had a hard time deciding between the three for my choice that day,but Mannix had a "presence" about him that would not be denied. Helen Miller Fisher In a message dated 3/11/2008 6:53:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, pumagsd@xxxxxxxxx writes: Mannix was approximately 30" at the withers. I stood next to him many times. But he was put together all so well that you would never know. He had an outstanding powerful yet fluid ground covering side gait. He was a spectacular and once in a lifetime dog ! He was purchased from Jerry Sukerforth (Sp?) by Jim Cusick and his wife from Coral Springs, Florida. I have not seen any dog as exciting as he was................and what temperament....................... And the year he went GV in Philly he got beat for breed by the GVX who moved like...........wow. That sable deserved the BOB at the national. So you can imagine how good she was. I was there and could not believe my eyes. After she won she was let go by the handler and did not break stride all the way across the ring on her way to her ownwer. Words could not properly descrbe the electrifying exciting feeling in the standing crowd ! Al Pumariega Miami, FL. Gsdbroon@xxxxxxx wrote: In a message dated 3/10/2008 7:14:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pumagsd@xxxxxxxxx writes: Size should not be the determining factor in placing a dog. I remember an oversize dog named Sukees Mannix. This is one of the very best dogs that I have ever seen. To this day I cherish a picture that I have of him. It was so exiting to see him perform in the ring with Terry Hower at the end of the lead. In those days in the Florida circuit you would have ten ( 10 ) selects in a show. American and open classes were composed by an average of 20 - 27 dogs. Terry would wait and be the last to enter the ring and all eyes would be fixed on him. This dog that earned the title of Grand Victor in Philly was well over the standard. All that being said I like a BIG male and a medium size bitch. I never thought he was oversized,,,but I only saw him at the National viv Vivian Brown Santa Ana CA **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================