My next question was if the 4ptr dogs didn't show up in the Group ring, would the points go down. I got the answer (of course, thank you!), but I'm wondering why. Logically, if the dogs who won the 4 point major don't show, then the Group winner is not winning OVER the 4 point dogs. Just mulling and helping me procrastinate other more important tasks. :-) Storm On Aug 10, 2010, at 8:13 AM, lebrowngsd@xxxxxxx wrote: It happens all the time at the smaller shows. I judged this past weekend in Marshall Mi and the Cardigans and Pembrokes had 4 points. The Group winner was a class animal so it got 4 points. In some smaller shows sometimes they don't even get a major by winning the group. That is not being ignorant, it is learning something new <G> Lee Brown In a message dated 8/9/2010 10:50:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Stormy435@xxxxxxx writes: Is it rare that a Group One does not have a 5 point major? I know that the person who is awarded a G1, gets the points awarded to the highest point winner in that group, but I am trying to imagine an AB Herding group and not one of the breeds garnered a 5 point major. Let me know how ignorant I am, I can deal with it:-) Stormy = = = = ======================================================================== ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================