Easy, all well bred GSD have some angulation. Even the German dogs have more angulation than say a Lab or fox terrier. Actually, some of the West German show lines have almost, if not as much, as our all breed dogs. Look at Dan Smith's Jim ( although he's an Italian dog I believe). Go back and look at the first GSD's, they even have some, and just as importantly to the novice dog person they are stacked just as they are today. I always point out when viewing my own dogs that as they walk around, the top line looks level or straight, but when they're stacked: there is the angulation! THEN we discuss how a GSD can move so easily and smoothly around sheep without upsetting them. If the person is still interested at that point, then I tell them about specialty shows and dogs and all breeds, again pointing out if they were to see the dog just walking around in the living room his top line would be staight as well. The other interesting fact that comes up is hips. OF COURSE, they think an angulated dog has bad hips. But, ( and this is true, try it yourself) if you go to the OFA website and start checking the stats of American GSD type kennels against the stats of the German type ( not trying to start a war here, I LIKE the German types as well) you'll see many more Goods and Excellents among the American style kennels than the German style. Now, I know that many schutzhund dogs are started early doing bite work which is jumping and tugging all which can have an effect on early development of the dogs hips. Nonetheless, there are very few pet people or beginners that have the ability to handle a high drive dog anyway so it serves my purpose well. Besides the more I can educate them, the better chance they will get a dog suited to them, that they are proud of and it won't end up in the pound. JMO, Sue T ----- Original Message ----- From: Sara Ply To: arcturus@xxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 10:14 AM Subject: RE: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Puppy wanted I would love to hear how you explain the angulation on good GSD's! Regards, S. <html><DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting" color=#cc33ff size=4></FONT></STRONG></DIV></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting" color=#cc33ff size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></html> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: arcturus@xxxxxxxxxxx > To: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Puppy wanted > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 00:26:37 -0400 > > Talked to Mike tonight who lives in the Scranton-Wilkesbarre area of Pa. He's looking for a male GSD puppy for a pet. His phone number is 570-417-8010. Seemed like a nice guy, we had a long talk on what to look for in a breeder. We also discussed why a good GSD does have angulation. He's expecting to pay around a $1000. for a nice pet. Sue T > > ============================================================================ > POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org > ============================================================================ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Missed the show? Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN. See them now! ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================