Kathy is right anything can happen in a split second anytime anywhere. I was at a rest area with a puppy and I am very aware of all that is going on around me, but out of no where came a dog charging at us. The dog was loose and from what I can gather had escaped from a car. I managed to get my dog in the car unscathed physicially but not unfortunately mentally and the dog took off to terrorize someone else but not before the incident like I said had left a mark on the puppy mentally. She was not scared because she put herself in front of me to protect me. But this incident has instilled in her mind that all dogs are out to get her. She has excellent temperment with people and kids but now not dogs and I have been working on trying to let her know that all dogs are not going to get her. This I might ad is very difficult to reverse. Which by the way if anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them. -----Original Message----- From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx To: bruiser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 9:44 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Puppy Play School In a message dated 12/19/2006 2:27:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bruiser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: I guess what I'm saying as for the puppy classes, you just have to ensure you go to someone reputable and be aware of your surroundings while you are there. That goes without saying but I still prefer they start in beginners ob at a reputable trainer or all breed club's class. While you might feel good about the person teaching the "puppy" class, there's no way you can insure who walks through the door and with what. You get the bullies, you get the scardy-cats, you get the owners who are clueless, you get (well meaning but misguided IMO) instructors that want them all to be loose and play together and all of a sudden a puppy who went with no issues is copying undesirable behaviors. I have all of this right in my puppy packet, yet I remember one couple in particular who ignored it and went to a reputable (Harrisburg Kennel Club) puppy class. I remember telling them either go in late or leave early and avoid "free time". Nope. "OK everyone, take your leash off". Well, in a split second a sight hound puppy chased and put down a toy puppy and all of the others piled on. Let me emphasize..."a split second". Lesson learned? For the toy dog, whatever fear it had in life was justified, (it peed all over the place in fear). For the larger dogs? It's fun to be a brave bully!!!!!! And you had what? One person in the room, the instructor, who maybe had a clue? No thanks. So I get a phone call from my couple late that night when they got home, absolutely horrified that their precious pup had participated in the bedlam. Duh! IME, at least if puppy people go to beginners OB, the clients have a little bit more of a clue and the dogs are a bit more under control. My dogs will socialize with similar sized, similar aged dogs that are owned by people I know and that's it. AND, I'm very fussy about who I'll train with for ob, tracking, rally....In fact, getting back to puppy people, I suggest when they are picking a school, they go and observe without their puppy to be sure they are comfortable with the training methods advocated, class size, etc. Rule number two in the puppy packet is that they NEVER, and I mean NEVER allow someone else to take their dog and use it as a demo dog or correct it. If an instructor wants to demonstrate, they can demonstrate on their own dog or even a stuffed animal (when it comes to something like a collar correction.) Not only is it unfair to the dog, but what good does it do for the dog to listen to the instructor? The instructor isn't going home with them, lol. Yup, I'm fussy when it comes to training. Kathy member GSDCA, DVGSDC three generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions live here! visit _Pine Hill German Shepherd Dogs_ (http://www.geocities.com/pinehillgsds/) ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. 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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================