First of all I think a clarification of "pigment" is needed. People talk about pigment , generally in two terms: As it relates to the depth and amt of black and as it relates to the depth of tan or red, or lack. Bi colors, don't necessarily have "good pigment" Bi color is a derivation of a b/t which can range from deep red to almost silver. We see a LOT of black and silver, black and creme bi colors. Breeding to them will NOT give you depth or richness of tan, only more black. If you want to improve tan you must breed to red or rich tan or rich sable with the red undercoat. If you need to improve black, then bi color will do that for you to a degree, so will sable, keeping in mind if the secondary color (tan ) is weak, it will also come through. We have gotten dogs in here with extremely pale tan or creme, with LOTS of ticking or saddle fade...we call it auto immune black and tan. It seems to be an issue when a dog has very faded pigment that is will often point to greater problems. The coats on these auto immune dogs also are either too wirey or too soft, rabbit like. Pigment is very important, it is part of what makes our breed distinct...the lack of it often points to greater issues. It is easy to get...and NOT acceptable from a bottle or spray can...that is only fooling oneself. Kathy http://www.victorygermanshepherds.com Updated: Oct 20, 2008 ~ HOME OF:: CH. Elvaston's Nations Cup TC, 26 BOBs CH. Victory's Leviathan CH. Garter's E-Male of Fran-Jo Anne Isle *WE SUPPORT DRUG AND DYE TESTING* ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2008. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================