Laura While I can understand your frustration, please refrain from collectively damning everyone that may read this post. I think we all know that we have work to do on improving perceptions of the breed in the show ring. However , we are not alone in that. Many other breeds are worse. Doesn't excuse it, but it is true. If you are really thinking about switching breeds than you are part of the problem, not the solution. You can't say we need new people and then bale. While your Terv person may have had shepherds for twenty years (so do a lot of pet owners) he doesn't support the breed, he/she switched to Tervs....how did that help GSDs? You cannot effect change by quitting. Please Laura do not lump everyone into a collective "shame on the rest of you" because truth be told you don't know what many breeders, and handlers and judges may be doing FOR our breed, FOR newcomers, quietly, behind the scenes. Simply "having" GSDs doesn't mean much, sticking with it, keeping your (collectively) membership, attending shows to exhibit when possible, to SUPPORT GOOD JUDGING IN AB AND SPECIALTY RINGS, to help newcomers,whether the breed is at it's peak or when it is having some difficulties THAT is helping the breed. Leaving solves nothing. Helps no one. Again TOTALLY understand your feelings, we all get frustrated with various aspects of showing/ breeding, etc. But when a person (collectively speaking here, not directly) decides to quit, after bad mouthing what many of us work so hard to support, it sounds like sour grapes and it shows me nothing. Kathy Tank -- http://www.victorygermanshepherds.com Ch. Elvaston's Nations Cup, TC, OFA 26 BOB/BISS to Date ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================