Exactly, however what of the Golden Retriever with 100% mortality rate from cancer? Or the pug's lacking muzzle. How do you control the population of Breeders who mass produce and care not? And, as Christine posted, each breed have their own health issues.. I'm all for improvement in health, but having the genes so loosy-goosy by out-crossing one breed to another sounds like the twilight zone. Kate @ Rockannand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jen Proud" <proudk9@xxxxxxxxx> To: fhenry1@xxxxxxxxxxx Cc: hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx, rockannand@xxxxxxx, stormy435@xxxxxxxxx, "Show GSD List" <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, 6 August, 2013 6:41:51 PM Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Opinions on this Article? The cross-breeding mentioned between a Dalmatian and a Pointer was done specifically to get genetic material that was no longer found within the Dalmatian breed... Every Dal has urinary stones-- that is except for the descendants of that original cross- all the progeny used for breeding was bred back to Dals; you couldn't tell the F3 progeny apart from a "purebred" Dalmatian. I showed quite extensively years ago with the family's go perpetuated this particular breeding. They showed both AKC & UKC and had many CH & GrandCH dogs- including those who were urinary tract stones free. :) As so few dogs are ever bred, and popular sire syndrome happening across many breeds, genetic diversity is frequently lost. That cross-breeding wasn't done with having some designer dog in mind and the immediate money- it was done in the hope that 6-10 years down the road she would have again registerable Dalmatians who weren't affected with UT stones. When to cross-breed is your only chance at gaining a desperately needed trait that would drastically improve the health of your dog/breed, wouldn't you take the chance too if you were in it for the long run? (Which unfortunately doesn't fit the majority of people who breed dogs with the average lifespan of a breeder being 5-6 years- just long enough for genetic problems to pop up from their breedings over a generation or two, become disheartened and quit) Just my 2 cents playing devil's advocate JayDee's Proud-Haus Shepherds/ ProudK911 www.jaydeesphs.com AKC Breeder of Merit Home of the Total Dog you can be Proud of!!! On 6 Aug 2013, at 17:55, Fran Henry < fhenry1@xxxxxxxxxxx > wrote: But that's exactly what all the "designer doodle" breeders are doing -- BUT they are selling ALL the puppies. I'm not a breeder, but I have enormous respect for those who are and who do their very best to improve the breed. I can't even imagine breeding to another breed, and I strongly suspect those who do just take pot luck. Though I'm not a breeder, I research lines and pedigrees and do my very best to select puppies with good health and good temperament on both sides. Just because one CAN breed a litter doesn't mean one SHOULD. Fran Henry Home of Konigin's My Abilene, TC, CGC On Aug 6, 2013, at 4:40 PM, Hickoryhill < hickoryhillgsd1@xxxxxxxxxxxx > wrote: Outcrosses should only be done for an absolute specific reason, and then you are to keep ONLY the progeny that exhibit the improvement. naturally Oppenheimer was talking about within the breed, could you imagine the problems you could potentially get and how unpredictable even your future litters would be if you were to outcross to a different breed??? Christine ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. 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NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================