HI, We agree. I had a very VERY extensive conversation with Dr. Hutchson. He told me that if he looks at an elbow long enough he can find some DJD in almost every one. So, it is waaaay to subjective as our breed is a breed that depends too much on that #. YES, I totally agree to X ray elbows. YES, I totally agree to not use UAP's, FCP's, or OCD's..as most of these can cause life long trouble and can be genetic. BUT, I won't throw out a good dog with DJD. Dr. Hutch wants me to bring Quno back in. He was diagnosed with DJD back in 1998. HE is now 10 and can run, jump and play with the best of them. I am not so sure I want to do that to the old boy, but It makes me mad that he could not get his AOE because of it. Tari Kridler Home of 2003 Amer & Can GVX Kridler's Ruby and her Father 2 x Sel. Amer & Can Ch. Kridler's Quno @ http://www.kridlersgermanshepherds.com & the New List http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CHGermanShepherdShowDogsList/join -----Original Message----- From: PAGAIRS@xxxxxxx To: stormygsd@xxxxxxx; Ketchy@xxxxxxxxxx; showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:46:14 EDT Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Disappointment In a message dated 4/9/2006 9:30:41 AM Central Standard Time, stormygsd@xxxxxxx writes: But, before getting all over these people's case, why don't you send his x-rays to OVC in Canada and see what Dr. Dobson has to say.. If you ask here, you will hear from many prominent and well known breeders in the GSD world that OFA isn't the end all and be all so many think it is.. Just my thoughts.. _____________________________________________________________________ I totally agree Stormy...I think we all have had the DJD grade 1 problem with OFA.... Talked to Keller at OFA about one of our dogs...and he told me...if he was rating my dogs elbows he saw no DJD...anyway he came back with DJD grade one....sent the xrays off to the OVC he was certified up there. I had another who OFA said had DJD...took her and her xrays to our ortho surgeon...no DJD...got a third opinion from a radioligist specalist...no DJD...Sent them to the OVC she certified up there also...Shes now 9 and never has limped. For those that are not familiar with the OVC...it is the oldest veterinary college in North American..it is at the Un. of Guelph in Canada...it is the Canadian registry....many fine vet have come from there including Jean Dodds.The xrays are evaluated by Dr. Dodson he has outstanding credentials . From what I have read its harder to get certified from the OVC...its a pass/fail ...either your good or bad. Alot of american breed club endorse the OVC...and they do alot of work with Canadian breed clubs. Patty Szymczak ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2006. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - URL temporarily deleted due to AOL issues ============================================================================