[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: OFA Breeding Question
- From: "Helen" <helen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:13:35 -0800
From: Helen Franklin
I once breed my Sel. Ch Don Quixote dog (OFA Good) to a bitch (also OFA
Good). The breeder of the litter supplemented
the puppies from early on with very rich food several times a day. At =
6
weeks, these butter balls were huge, beautiful round little guys and I =
liked
them so much, I bought the litter. At three months, they began walking
strangely and I x-rayed them. They all had severe h/d and had to be
euthanized. Very rapid growth at an early age is a disaster.
Learning the hardway: Helen Franklin =20
-----Original Message-----
From: Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 2:05 PM
To: showgsd-l digest users
Subject: showgsd-l Digest V1 #176
showgsd-l Digest Mon, 22 Nov 2004 Volume: 01 Issue: 176
In This Issue:
#1: From: CMILL189@xxxxxxx
Subject: NEW CHAMPION!!
#2: From: Susan Madlung <stormygsd@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: color of puppies
#3: From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
Subject: was OFA Breeding Question
#4: From: DePahlD@xxxxxxx
Subject: Major Brag
#5: From: DOGSRLUV@xxxxxxx
Subject: OFA Breeding Question
#6: From: Ann Mariano <brittaleahnasa@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Handler for Bethlehem?
#7: From: PAGAIRS@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: colors of puppies
#8: From: barbarar <domara4@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: OFA Breeding Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg: #1 in digest
From: CMILL189@xxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:08:50 EST
Subject: NEW CHAMPION!!
Hi Everyone, I have been trying to find the words to express our joy at =
finishing our new Champion MillerTime's Boston USA, OFA H&E (Ch Rohan's
Glass=20
Palace ROM and Champion Pacific Shore's Bonnie Dune ROM pending) on Sat. =
Nov
20,=20
in Springfield, MA. Thank-you Mrs. Kathleen Kanzler for pointing to our =
boy
on=20
Sat. for his last 3 point major.=20
In June I posted about Boston's Major Reserve win, that earned his =
mom
her=20
ROM!!! Well, now I am so excited to say that he is Ch. Bonnie Dune's =
4th=20
Champion!!! Thank you Fred and Annette Freeman for making this Dream =
come=20
true!!!! Champion MillerTime's Boston USA!!!! Take Care everyone =
and
have a=20
wonderful Thanksgiving Holiday. Cindy
=20
Craig and Cynthia Miller
MillerTime Shepherds
German Shepherds with STYLE
------------------------------
Msg: #2 in digest
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:25:55 -0800
From: Susan Madlung <stormygsd@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: color of puppies
the confusion comes from your going off kilter on the question.. the
question was about the possible BLUES in the litter.. why the need to =
start
picking apart the whole post?
It seems some people just have to see their words on the screen no =
matter
what they type..and just have to be "right" all the time..
Post -Op Sue who's cranky too..
Shadowacre Reg'd German Shepherds http://www.shadowacre.com/future.htm
Updated Sept 7./04!!!
----- Original Message -----=20
From: <NHANSBURG@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Susan Madlung" <stormygsd@xxxxxxx>
Cc: <PAGAIRS@xxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:01 PM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: color of puppies
> i sent this privately but now i am posting to the list because i am=20
> tired
of people who come on strong and do not read carefully.
>
> it is not possible to get a black and tan puppy and a solid black=20
> puppy
from a solid black and a sable. ceci claimed she had this.
>
> those of us who have bred and shown sables whether red or black sables =
> kid
around a lot about that strange color sable.the whalens for instance are =
in
on that joke.it is possible to mistake sable puppies for off colors =
when
they are first born
>
> i know all about blues and livers and have since 1970. anyone who has=20
> had
a stud dog knows about it. the site that sally hayden recommended on the
subject is excellent.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Susan Madlung <stormygsd@xxxxxxx>
> Date: Monday, November 22, 2004 1:26 pm
> Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: color of puppies
>
> > Norma, blue pigment has nothing to do with black, black and tan or=20
> > sable.show lines, working lines or what have you.. it has to do with =
> > a palin
> g/dilute form of a black gene (which all shepherds carry to
> > produceblack noses etc, saddles, hair tips, nails etc..)
> >
> > in this case BOTH parents have a dilute gene.. they got together and =
> > produced 2 lovely little blue babies.. Sue Madlung - Shadowacre=20
> > Reg'd German Shepherds http://www.shadowacre.com/future.htm Updated=20
> > Sept 7./04!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <NHANSBURG@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <PAGAIRS@xxxxxxx>
> > Cc: <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:48 AM
> > Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: color of puppies
> >
> >
> > > i have had several sable puppies and we joke around and call them
> > that odd
> > color. they look very brown when born with tan underneath.... i=20
> > called one of them Grandma moses. Lots of people knew her. have=20
> > plenty of pictures of
> > them at under a week of age... sometimes grey sables look black but
> > redsables look brown and tan.....THE COLORS SHE WAS DESCRIBING ARE =
NOT
> > GENETICALLY POSSIBLE since she cou
> ld have NO BLACK AND TANS. Dont
> > be led
> > astray by flashy words.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: PAGAIRS@xxxxxxx
> > > Date: Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:23 am
> > > Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] color of puppies
> > >
> > > > In a message dated 11/20/2004 10:21:24 PM Central Standard Time, =
> > > > NHANSBURG@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
> > > >
> > > > > sometimes we call sables that strange color.they are born tan
> > > > with black
> > > > > stripes
> > > >
> > > > Guess you never had a sable baby....and whos "WE" that calls
> > them a
> > > > strange
> > > > color. Been breeding over 25 yrs...have had a lot of sables and=20
> > > > never heard them referred to as "strang
> > > e color". Oh, sables are born dark not
> > > > tan with black
> > > > stripes, sounds like your referring to a tiger. Norma do you say =
> > > > the things you do just to be controversial??
> > > >
> > > > Patty Szymczak
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> >
> > > POST is C
> opyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the
> > original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or=20
> > FORWARDSof any kind are permitted without prior permission of the=20
> > original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS=20
> > RESERVED.
> > >
> > > ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR
> > USE IN ANY
> > MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE=20
> > EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST=20
> > MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLYFORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW.=20
> > VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED.
> > >
> > > For assistance, please contact the List Management at
> > admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
> > >
> >
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or =
FORWARDS
of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original =
author
AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
>
> ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN=20
> ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS =
EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL =
BE
PROSECUTED.
>
> For assistance, please contact the List Management at=20
> admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
>
------------------------------
Msg: #3 in digest
From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:34:06 EST
Subject: was OFA Breeding Question
=20
=20
In a message dated 11/22/2004 2:20:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, =20
Santanagsd1954@xxxxxx writes:
There has always been those Shepherds who x-ray Good or Excellent who =
produce crippling Dysplasia in some of their progeny.=20
I have always wondered if they are not actually genetically Dysplastic =
themselves but inherited a Modified gene that keeps the HD from =
expressing =20
itself=20
in them, but when bred, they can pass on the Dysplastic Genes without =
passing=20
on the Modifying gene and the result is that the HD is expressed in =
those =20
progeny who lack the Modifying Gene.=20
There are more than a dozen things off the top of my head that I want to =
=20
breed away from, (in no particular order; HD, ED, bloat/torsion, =
epilepsy, =20
pancreatic insufficiency, spinal issues, uncontrollable allergies/skin
issues, =20
heart issues, mega, suspect immune systems, wackadoodle =
temperaments....)
and=20
even without DNA I can find a lot of them in the first few generations =
(or=20
immediate relatives) of darned nearly every pedigree I look at. Then, =
w/a
lot of=20
"issues" there is the "environmental" factor to be considered...(diet,=20
exercise, living conditions)....so you have the genetic/environmental =
risk
factors=20
to consider and weigh. Of course, I also want them to be structurally=20
correct, loving companions, pretty to look at and easy keepers too! =
You do
the=20
best you can, stand behind your puppies and say the occasional novena. =
To
the=20
original question...would I breed an OFA fair to an OFA fair? IMO, =
there=20
are a whole lot worse things in pedigrees, so if everything else was a
green=20
light, you 'betcha!
=20
Kathy
------------------------------
Msg: #4 in digest
From: DePahlD@xxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:45:50 EST
Subject: Major Brag
This Saturday in MD, DePahl's Bacardi (Carrie) won her first major, =
thank
you=20
Mr. Gregory. This makes 10 with 1 major. Carrie is owned by Tom =
Chappell=20
and myself.
Carrie (Voo x Dallas) is 1 of 3 of this litter to have earned =
Championship=20
points. She's joined by DePahl's Brandy, 2004 MA BOF, 2004 Nat'l 1st
American=20
Bred Bitch and DePahl's Bourbon & Ginger (Brat) (owned by Sharon Wunder =
and=20
myself).
DePahl's Bailey's Irish Cream had a great time in novice this weekend =
for=20
some practice runs and looks forward to joining the ranks of her =
sisters.
Denise Black-Hollister
------------------------------
Msg: #5 in digest
From: DOGSRLUV@xxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:08:03 EST
Subject: OFA Breeding Question
Here is my opinion to breeding OFA Fair to OFA Fair..... ABSOLUTELY. Now
here is my reason why. You could send that same XRay a few weeks later=20
and get 3 different evaluators and wham.... OFA good or maybe even
excellent,=20
depends on who reads it and what kind of mood they are in. JMO... But I =
have
seen it before, so ratings fair, good or excellent does not sway me one =
way
or=20
another to breed to a dog..=20
Debbie Kaser
Mariner's Shepherds
------------------------------
Msg: #6 in digest
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:43:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Mariano <brittaleahnasa@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Handler for Bethlehem?
Hi.
Does anyone know of a good handler with a long stride, (preferably male
since my girl is VERY strong and needs the strength of a man to keep =
control
:)) who has an opening for the Bethlehem show. I am looking for the Open
bitch class under Dorothy Hutchinson.She is trained, baits/stacks, and =
has a
very long stride. I am willing to meet ahead a time so they can work =
with
her since she does need a handler who can keep her controled when =
gaiting
(fine once she stops) since she has been known to go out ahead "too =
much".
Thanks in Advance.
Ann Marie=20
www.geocities.com/amarigermanshepherds/Amari.html=20
Home of CH Fairway's Leah v Nadelwald TC OFA
and her daughter R/Best In Futurity Amari's Ava Gardner OFA
=09
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!=20
------------------------------
Msg: #7 in digest
From: PAGAIRS@xxxxxxx
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:50:18 EST
Subject: Re: colors of puppies
In a message dated 11/22/2004 1:33:09 PM Central Standard Time,=20
krieger@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> Has anyone one ever had a puppy come out with a white stripe down the =
> face
> or a white splash on the head? How come this occurs? I saw this in a
litter=20
> I looked at. New one for me.
> Leanne K
Got it when I bred to a certain stud dog....twice..(one puppy each =
litter)=20
.then bred the bitch to a different stud and never got it again. White =
strip
down the muzzle. Did fade as the dog got older.
Patty
------------------------------
Msg: #8 in digest
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:03:02 -0600
From: barbarar <domara4@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: OFA Breeding Question
You must have read my book! LOL!
barbarar
DOGSRLUV@xxxxxxx wrote:
>Here is my opinion to breeding OFA Fair to OFA Fair..... ABSOLUTELY.=20
>Now here is my reason why. You could send that same XRay a few weeks=20
>later and get 3 different evaluators and wham.... OFA good or maybe=20
>even excellent, depends on who reads it and what kind of mood they are=20
>in. JMO... But I have seen it before, so ratings fair, good or=20
>excellent does not sway me one way or another to breed to a dog..
>
>Debbie Kaser
>Mariner's Shepherds
>
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or =
FORWARDS
of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original =
author
AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.=20
>
>ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN=20
>ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE =
EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS =
EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL =
BE
PROSECUTED.
>
>For assistance, please contact the List Management at=20
>admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
=3D
>
> =20
>
--=20
Barbara R. icq#14282540
domara4@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.domara.com (beautiful GSDs, where form follows function)
http://barbrazart.netfirms.com/animalportraits/index.htm
(watercolor, pastel, oil, acrylic paintings) =
http://barbrazart.netfirms.com/
"I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on disk somewhere"
------------------------------
End of showgsd-l Digest V1 #176
*******************************
============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org
============================================================================
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