[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: My take on Temp Test @ Futurities
- From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
- To: caggra@xxxxxxx, VPREZHMF@xxxxxxx, tanksr@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 12:06:35 EDT
Jeff, we were speaking about F/M globally, I didn't single out specific
dogs/shows/judges, but I've certainly been to my share of F/M, Specialties and
All Breed shows and I've seen my share of nuts, spooky-dooks, bad actors,
whack jobs etc. I see more of that at the F/M Specialties early in the
season BTW, which to me indicates there may be need for improvement in the
socialization area...just sayin'. OR the dogs just really do need to come
equipped w/ their own butterfly net and consequently they never come out
again and have a chance to embarrass their people...God help us in the case of
bitches they go directly to the breeding pool!
You may have noticed the large entry at my club, Del. Valley a few weekends
back preceding the F/M. We had many lovely dogs, a few that were unsure
and a very few that were bad actors. I thought our judges did a lovely job
administering a correct test. I assure you it was no burden to the judges
or the club. Why all the fuss?????
Of course in any venue some can slide by and I'm not happy when they do.
I'm certainly not going to criticize a program that tries to prevent it.
Sorry you feel it creates an unnatural situation. I suppose some judges
administer a test poorly. The program that includes contracts and observers
(F/M Nationals etc.) tries to correct/prevent that.
BTW as an exhibitor, in the breed and performance arenas I've always felt
I can train a dog easier that I can predict what a particular judge will do
on any certain day, so I socialize the heck out of mine. In Obedience we
call that "proofing". I can't imagine paying entrees/ handling fees etc. on
a dog I didn't consider to be rock solid.
But as far as a loose lead temperament test program, maybe you have a
better idea? I'm all for ideas...
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
In a message dated 5/4/2011 10:37:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
caggra@xxxxxxx writes:
Kathy,
I think your response and verbiage of "whack jobs" is unfair, unwarrented,
incorrect, and plain old ignorant considering you weren't there. Have
you met even one of the dogs excused or affected?
I seriously doubt you have.
As far as you not entering Futurities. Do you not enter AKC all breed
shows or specialty shows? Nationals? Dogs in any of those rings have slid
by here or there, being put up even when acting bad. I witnessed this a
few weeks ago at a big specialty. So what is the difference Kathy? I am
all for good solid temperment testing, but it's how it's packaged.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
To: caggra@xxxxxxx; VPREZHMF@xxxxxxx; tanksr@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 10:07 am
Subject: Re: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: My take on Temp Test @ Futurities
I think I was responding to Ken & Helen's e-mails....but since you ask why
the pressure, observers, contracts etc to perform a correct test and
penalize those dogs that are whack jobs???? Since you ask it's because
others,
like myself, haven't entered because we saw poor temperament rewarded in
the past....
Paying better attention to temperament may hurt entries, or it may help
entries...who knows? Or it may just encourage some to get their puppies out
more before they are asked to show....but as to why entries are
declining...observers are far, far, far down on the list of reasons IMO.
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
In a message dated 5/4/2011 9:50:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_caggra@xxxxxxxx (mailto:caggra@xxxxxxx) writes:
First of all let me preface this by reminding you that I was barely
affected by any temperment test issues at the Futurity. So, there are no sour
grapes or complaining on my part. My clients had a great day and I am very
thankful for my wins.
Secondly, I did not say Futurity entries were down because of the Futurity
temperament test or observer. What I did say was that we are already
experiencing declining entries for many reasons (partially hidden by the
addition of the ability to double enter two Futurities) and that from what I
overheard ringside this past weekend, several breeders/exhibitors (many with
several Futurity entries) were expressing frustration and expressing that
they may not choose to continue exhibiting in Futurities.
Those are the facts. The Board, Futurity Committee, Temperment Chair, and
the rest of you can choose to deal with it or not. I, myself, am afraid
that this will just be one more addition to the issues contributing to
declining Futurity entries. I like Futurities and I don't want them to go
away. But they are puppy matches. So, why all the contracts and observers
and pressure on everyone, especially the hosting club and judge?
And to repeat - I am all for temperment tests. I don't like to show dogs
with temperment issues. I refuse to own one and have it live in my house.
And I think that some breeders should definitely pay more attention to
character when breeding. However, I believe any testing should come in the
form of a natural situation. When you start trying to manipulate a natural
with all sorts of added rules & pressure it easily becomes unnatural.
JMO,
Jeff Pyle
Windfall
-----Original Message-----
From: _Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx)
To: _VPREZHMF@xxxxxxxx (mailto:VPREZHMF@xxxxxxx) ; _tanksr@xxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:tanksr@xxxxxxxxx)
Cc: _showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: Wed, May 4, 2011 8:04 am
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: My take on Temp Test @ Futurities
Oh COME ON people...entries at F/M aren't down because there are
bservers! Entries are down because it's an EXPENSIVE match that has
taken on
ll
f the drama of a mini national including sending baby puppies to "camp".
emperament wasn't faulted many times in the past and IMO it sure should
ave been. How many times have you seen dogs rewarded that lost their
ookies??? I sure have and if the pendulum briefly swings the other way, I
on't lose any sleep...for the love of God...remember the old "train don't
omplain"??? Get the dogs out, go to a few classes or a child's sports
event
efore you throw them in the ring. (IF they are wrapped right that is.)
s it that darned hard to have an approachable dog who later stands
doesn't have to be a perfect statue!) to be gone over, willingly shows
teeth,
oesn't "fold" when its testicles are touched.
re you KIDDING me?????
s to how observers are selected, the temperament committee contacts the
/M chair who supplies a list of names. Some judges, some not judges, all
xperienced in dogs. Then the committee contacts the people on the list,
iscusses the requirements, sends a DVD of the test being performed
correctly
nd a form to be completed and sent back to Jim York.
athy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
elebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
isit _http://_www.pinehillgsds.com/__ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_)
(_http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) _ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) ) ;
n a message dated 5/4/2011 6:26:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_PREZHMF@xxxxxxxx (mailto:PREZHMF@xxxxxxx) writes:
In a message dated 5/4/2011 12:03:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
_anksr@xxxxxxxxxx (mailto:anksr@xxxxxxxxx) writes:
ave to agree with this. There must be a better way. Who picks the
bserver?
s it even a good idea to have an observer? Is this really going to help
he
uturities entries????
en
I'd like to remind everyone that in the early years of futurities when
we
ad huge entries in the 60'70's and many times,we needed two judges--we
idn't have the temperament testing or observations. It was a match to
how
ff the young promising animals. I had the pleasure of judging 3-4 of
hem,and once with Gary Staser.. It was an important dog show of
ourse,but
ostly lots of fun for both the judge and exhibitors The only one I've
one
n recent times was in the NE and had to do a temperament test and had
ebbie Hokkanen as the observer---nice club, good dogs but so serious,(
ore
ike competing at the National). and not so much fun. Just some of my
houghts --Helen Miller Fisher
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author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
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Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
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