I agree it's about breed integrity, the way we maintain it is following the breed standard. But until AKC, or the GSDCA, follows ASCA's example, or chooses to address the issue in other ways, the missing tooth should be considered a serious fault per the standard. Until that time, judges encounter exhibitors who dye their dogs, enhance pigment on the nose or nails, etc. telling the judge that the tooth was lost in an accident. Who to believe and who not to - you have to be consistent and by following the standard you ensure consistency. By allowing for unaccepted exceptions, it's unfair to other competitors who attempt to play by the rules. If a missing tooth is important enough to be singled out in the breed standard without allowing for extenuating circumstances, then it's important enough for the judges to follow the standard and consider it a serious fault. If judges pick and choose those parts of the standard they don't agree with then what good is having a standard. GSD judges and exhibitors should go to the next board meeting, or write, and ask the PC to address the standard's wording. In the meantime, judges shouldn't make up their own rules. I might have missed one, but I found five problems listed as serious faults with the GSD breed standard, some leave wiggle room, some don't. The wording for the missing teeth doesn't presently leave any wiggle room. (1) Any of the above deficiencies in character which indicate shyness must be penalized as very serious faults ... (2) Any missing teeth other than first premolars is a serious fault. ... (3) Tails too short, or with clumpy ends due to ankylosis, are serious faults. ... (4) Pale, washed-out colors and blues or livers are serious faults. ... (5) Faults of gait, whether from front, rear or side, are to be considered very serious faults. .... Gayle & the Hooligans! Ringer-Honey-Kelly-Mac-Slider-Bruiser Waiting at the Bridge: Andy-Abbey-Tasha-Tex-Echo-Yukon-JR-Too-Niki-Bo -- tsaligsds@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: Well, I kind of disagree here. As a judge I am looking for breeding stock. Problems that are not genetic should not be considered. A genetically missing tooth should be taken into consideration IF it is anything other than the first premolar. If a tooth is missing through an accident I would love to know that! ASCA allows for the judge to be notified BY VETERINARY LETTER if an animal is missing teeth (tooth) due to injuries. As someone who actively herds and had seen more than one dog loose multiple teeth from a well placed cow and horse hick, I know that working injuries happen. Teeth get broken off in schutzhund too. Personally I think a letter is a fine idea. Ears can be bitten off by other dogs... an obvious accident... or they could be cropped off if they don't stand up! Now I know we don't have hanging ears in the breed (ever wonder why its specified in our standard??) so noone would do that. (lol) However, if I got a letter before judging telling me that the missing half an ear was due to an injury I'd definitely appreciate it! Its not whether you choose to ignore the standard or not. Its about breed integrity and selecting the best breeding stock. Thats genetics not injury - common sense. Suzanne www.tsalishepherds.com Home of Ch Firedog, Ch Cookie, Ch Flair, BIS/BISS Ch Yancy, and Ch Flash! Website updated 10/05 ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================