"I don't believe Levine in now not willing to talk to and work with the other side, he's gone on record in the Senate committee and on TV saying that he is willing, attacking him personally and calling him names serves no purpose at all...anything that can be learned can be unlearned...we've all heard the expression that you must fight "fire with fire".....the best way to fight fire is with water...Ed Hill" With a lot of my friends we are willing to help provide the water. We will be at the ready when you give the order to unzip. In the meantime we will consume lots of liquids. Seriously, the people that are behind these movements are as dedicated to universal castration (and for some of them it may not be limited to dogs and cats) as was Mohammed Atta to blowing up the twin towers. Many years ago (maybe 25) a group of them (all ladies) was proposing a spay neuter ordinance in Orange County. Representing Santa Ana Valley Kennel Club, the late Vern Johnson and I together with other fanciers met with them and met with them and met with them. We tried to explain that there were many puppies being imported into the state from Midwest puppy mills to the pet stores that this action would not touch and that it would have zero impact on shelter populations. They had already accepted spay neuter as their holy writ and were not even interested in visiting the pet stores with us and were unmoved by our stories of the inhumane conditions in which pet store puppies were raised and kept in the pet stores. Eventually they gave up because the Board of Supervisors was dominated by Supervisor Diedrich (known as "Super D") who frequently had trouble with animal control when his dogs got out. They could not find a sponsor for their proposed ordinance. But the movement has not faded away as evidenced by the fact that Judy Mancuso is from Orange County. I hesitate to add this because it will cause me to be labeled a particular kind of pig. However, these ladies were, in large measure, women without men, or young children, or women whose husbands were less than inattentive. Don Arner, who had published the training magazine "Off Lead" lived here at that time representing a dog food company and he met with our group. He made an effort to pour water on their fire by inviting them to a dinner. When the menus were passed out and he learned that they were all vegans, he knew that selecting a steak house as a place to entertain them was not a really good idea. These ladies were absolutely sincere and dedicated, and were immune to any form of compromise. A number of them personally rescued dogs and a few later got into trouble by having too many dogs which they had rescued, placing themselves over the legal limit in their residential areas. Our new next door neighbor is a young single lady who has two dogs she rescued from shelters. She is a dedicated adherent to AB1634. I tried to discuss our side with her and her eyes glazed over. I took 12 year old Pepper out front to meet the neighbor and she loved him. When I mentioned to Pepper that she wanted to castrate him, she appeared not to hear. Levine's line all along has been that he reaches out to our side but we will not cooperate. I believe this is just a cover story and that he believes that castration and hysterectomy is the only solution. He has so much of his reputation invested in this idea that for him to make a more reasonable approach would tarnish his ego and infuriate the most dedicated of his adherents. It is seldom a winning proposition to try to negotiate with your hangman. Tom Brown ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================